Oil Heat Maintenance or Replacement

snookman23

I have a Peerless  oil boiler which was installed in 1995.  In April 2010 (same time as AC service), I had the boiler serviced and was told the unit was running with 82.5% efficiency.

In November 2011 I had the boiler serviced by the same company, but different tech.  I told the efficiency was now 70%.  This is what the techs ticket said "Oil Boiler PMA CO level at 85 PPM/ Eff. 70%.  Highly recommend new boiler.  Boiler needs a lot of work and is almost 20 years old.  If not replacing boiler need to upgrade burner and replace oil line.  Should replace rusted circulator isolation vales and flanges for smaller zone.  May new new combustion chamber in next couple years."

Here are my questions:

1. Why would the efficiency drop so much in 1.5 years?

2. Is the CO level an issue?

3. The combustion chamber was replaced by the previous owner when we bought the house in 2007.  Why would it need replacement so quickly?

4. I can replace the circulator valves and flanges, just haven't gotten around to it.  They are rusty, but do not appear to have rusted further since we bought the house.  The oil line has a little green corrosion on it, but I think it's from previous basement water, which has been addressed.

5. In the past week, I had another company come in for a service.  They wouldn't service anything because a small hole was found in the flue at the elbow just beyond the connection to the boiler.  There was some water leakage and some green efflourescence type stuff on the stainless steel flue liner, but I did not notice the hole.  Since the flue liner was also installed in 2007, I will be calling the installer for warranty service.

6. The techs ticket recommends either a Beckett burner upgrade kit for $700, which includes new primary control, ignition transformer, electrodes, burner coupling and fuel shut-off solenoid valve.  -Or- A "New Oil Burner"" for $1245.  It seems like the upgrade kit and new burner are almost the same thing.  Do I need clarificaation from the service company?

Sorry to be long winded, but overall is this a ploy for sale of a new boiler vs servicing the old one?  I was not home with the most recent servicing, so could not get a feel for this tech and his level of expertise.  Did speak with him on the phone and he seemed young.

Thank you.

meplumber

We don't discuss pricing on this board.

We do not discuss pricing on this board.



Basically you have a 20 yr old oil system. Could the tech's slip say 78% eff or could he have simply mis-written 70% instead of 78%? Peerless of that era typically run about 80% +/- a % or two.



The high PPM of CO could be caused by flame impingement on the combustion chamber. That chamber has been in there for 5 yrs. Not unheard of that the chamber is crumbling, if not properly maintained every single year.



Depending on your location, most unprotected oil lines are now required to be replaced and sleeved to protect against oil leaks. There is no way that your chimney liner guy is going to warranty the chimney liner after 5 yrs. Good luck with that.



Bottom line, you have a boiler that is at the end of its useful life. Time to start thinking about and budgeting for replacement. Do you still drive the same car that you did in 1995? I doubt it, and your boiler sits in your basement and runs with maintenance only once a year (if that) for 20 yrs. Think of it as your boiler now has 2,880,000 miles on it.



I don't mean to sound harsh, but the reality is as described.



Good luck.

snookman23

Not looking for pricing opinion

meplumber, Thanks for your input.  I was not requesting an opinion on pricing, just stating the order of magnitude.  Becker burner kit has a three digit price, new burner has a four digit price and new boiler has a four/borderline five digit price.  Three digit is more comfortable for the pockets, but don't want to waste the money.

I also neglected to mention that gas is currently piped into the house, so conversion to gas is an option.

Flue installer information says lifetime warranty on the material, ten year warranty on the workmanship.  We'll see what happens.

STEVEusaPA

Sorry about the trouble you've been having

It's hard to diagnose your trouble without seeing the unit, but here are my thoughts:

1. You are correct in thinking this is a sales ploy. No way everything takes a poop that quickly without some definite reasons.

2. Every 'problem' discovered has remedies that don't involve boiler/burner replacement.

3. Why did the efficiency drop? Bad tune-up, wrong nozzle, wrong set up, etc., etc. if it were tuned up properly the CO level would've been much lower.

4. New combustion chamber? Maybe he damaged it during the clean and now wants you to pay for it. Maybe he never opened the door or removed the front to clean the chamber.

5. A Beckett burner upgrade kit is pure bs. Why do all those components need to be replaced?

6. Small hole? The hole where the combustion/smoke test is taken, or actual failure? If its failure, could be from low flue gas temperature, which could be condensation eroding the flue pipe, even washing down into the chamber-a possible cause for chamber replacement.

Low return water temps can contribute to this and the water you see.



The bottom line is you need a true professional in the to properly evaluate and explain to you what's wrong, and how it can be corrected. Everything was working fine a year ago, what changed? Someone touched it (this years service hack).



Where are you located? I'm sure there is someone here who can help.

snookman23

Location

Steve, I'm in Merion Station, PA, immediate Phila suburbs.  Are you in PA too?

STEVEusaPA

Pretty close

Broomall

snookman23

Woes in PA

Nice.... right down the road.  I'll reserve comment on our &@#$ty baseball team, hacks for football team and how our taxpayer money is currently funding legal fees and penalties for a certain large university.

Anyway, if you have any recommendations for a professional, I'd certainly entertain them.

snookman23

Woes in PA

Nice.... right down the road.  I'll reserve comment on our &@#$ty baseball team, hacks for football team and how our taxpayer money is currently funding legal fees and penalties for a certain large university.

Anyway, if you have any recommendations for a professional, I'd certainly entertain them.

icesailor

Replacement:

What a load of flue gas residue.

The thing may be old but so am I. Much older than your boiler. There are a lot of techs out there that only do "new". They are "The White Glove" crowd. Their daily goal is a new pair of white cotton gloves in the morning and that they stay that way for the day. If I made a prognostication as broad as that, I would worry that someone (like myself) would come along and point out what a crook the last guy was.

I don't find that Peerless Boilers are the most stellar boilers made but they get the job done. If it is a JO-JOT, I promise you that the boiler wasn't cleaned properly, and hasn't since the chamber was replaced. If it is a WB, unless you can see visible signs on the bolts that hold the front in place, it only had what I refer to as "A Brush And Buff". Brush the crap down into the chamber and buff the dust off the jacket and near piping.

Then, there's the issue of the high CO. If the "Expert" was the guy who cleaned it,and did a Combustion Analysis on it, he needs to have his certification revoked for a penalty period and go to one of Firedragon's Oil Burner Schools. I would like to say this in all caps but I don't want to alarm anyone. If you brush all the crap down into the chamber and bottom of the boiler, there is a lot of CARBON that will need to be burned off AND GIVE YOU A HIGH CO READING!!!. I'm quite sure that he did an analysis as soon as he got it back together.

A new boiler wouldn't hurt but the one you have could outlive you and I. If you switch to gas, will the oil company be the one doing the conversion or the new install? If not, that tech has a serious case of myopic tunnel vision.

You need to find someone that really services oil equipment. Not someone on sales commission and wants to sell you something.

You have more issues than I care to address here, and without me personally seeing what you have, I can't say. But my experience says that if I tried to pull off what was pulled off on you, the customer would call someone else. Like me. And never say a word about what someone else had said. When someone comes along like myself and other honest others, the first guy will never know, but they will never be called back, and you probably won't have much good to say. Meanwhile, Mr. Honest, quality oil tech can get a nice job, you won't feel that you weren't offered a pair of jeans with a hole on the back and a jar of Vaseline, and you will sing the praises of Mr. Honest-Quality.

Get a second opinion. Don't be cheap. You weren't comfortable with the first person, and I don't think the others were all that astute.

These are my opinions, and mine only.

STEVEusaPA

Send me an email...

And I would be more then happy to give you a call

billtwocase

I would say

If you can get Steve on site, all will be more clear. Any mention on price is taboo here. As stated, pics are a must. What model Peerless?  Control upgrade and a Clean-Cut pump is a plus. The other items not really. The ignition should be set for interupted, so selling you an electronic ignitor is a waste of money, and they also don't hold up well. The chamber could have been either poorly installed, or damaged during servicing? Possible high CO readings? The hole may be the test hole? Like Ice said, too many problems and possible remedies without all the info. 

STEVEusaPA

Update...problem corrected

Thanks to the Snookman for the opportunity. Went out Friday found the following problems on the WB 110:

1. Wrong nozzle-had a .65 nozzle. Put in proper nozzle.

2. Boiler was pretty dirty-proper cleaning.

3. Bolt missing on clean out box, loaded up with furnace cement-- replaced bolt and gasket.

4. Gasket & 2 bolts missing on burner mount--fixed.

5. Ye olde one screw in transformer.

6 Pump pressure & 160 psi, properly corrected to 140.

7. Combustion chamber was fine, vacuumed out base.

Combustion test NUMBERS came back good--(from memory) 77.7% eff, 12.1 CO2, low CO AF, low excess air, 0 smoke.

8. Fixed rotted flue pipe elbow. HO will follow up with chimney guy to check cap and possible water infiltration.