Stay steam? Oil or Gas?

Unknown

<span style="font-size:12pt">I own a 2 family rental that has 2 very old oil fired steam boilers that need to be replaced.  Trying to decide whether to stay steam or convert to forced hot water and whether to convert to gas.  Tenants will be paying utility bills.  Both have had electric hot water heaters installed as hot water used to come off of boilers.  Bottom floor is vacant, and trying to do this first.  If I stay with oil, this oil tank should be replaced.  Both boilers go into same chimney.</span>

<span style="font-size:12pt">Someone else suggested gas fired forced hot air for a rental unit. </span>

<span style="font-size:12pt"> I am leaning towards staying with steam and converting to gas.  Tenant would have no oil tank to fill or oil to prorate, drain out, run out, and they get their bill every month based on usage.  Right now gas seems to be a lot cheaper than oil as well.  I am looking for any suggestions, help, guidance, etc.  to make this decision.  Thank you.</span>

Steamhead

No reason to dump the steam

what amounts of radiation do the apartments have? 

Unknown

Radiation

The downstairs apartment has 5 radiators and is approximately 750 square feet. The upstairs apartment has 7 radiators, 1 in the downstairs hall. 5 on the second floor and 1 in the attic.

Unknown

oops

BobC

How well do the systems work now?

We need to know how many radiators are in each apartment and what size they are (number of columns per section, number of sections, and HWD); from that we can determine the amount of radiation each boiler feeds and thus what size boiler would have to be installed.



Aside from the age and efficiency of the old system what operating issues do you have with it now? If the system works it is probably best to just install new boilers and save yourself a lot of headaches. If you are having system problems, tell us what they are and we can advise you on what steps to take.



I would not start down the road to convert a system from steam to forced hot water unless I was prepared to replace all the radiators and piping because there is a good chance you might have to do that. Replacing steam with forced hot air means tearing everything out and running new ductwork.



Make sure any contractors you deal with know and understand steam systems, otherwise they will sell you what they want to work on not what you need.



Bob

moneypitfeeder

My vote

Is for the steam as well, as the owner, if you switch to something like forced air, you'll be opening walls (or building "boxed in")  ductwork, so plenty of drywall. Removing all the old cast iron, possible asbestos rmvl, fixing walls and floors behind and under radiators. The list goes on. I echo previous responses to post what issues the system has now, because you will get invaluable information here as to what your options really are. I do think gas might be a nice convenience for your tenants. Running out of oil in late December is never a nice event. (plus the cost on that day is guaranteed to be double than 3 weeks before) Are the boilers connected or is each unit piped with its own? Is this a 1 pipe or 2 pipe system? (easiest id is how many pipes go in or exit the radiators). And do you have the ability to take pictures of the boilers from multiple angles (from as far away as possible?) Welcome, and I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Unknown

Each apartment has its own boiler.

 It is a one pipe system.



The downstairs apartment has 5 radiators and is approximately 750 square feet.

 

The upstairs apartment has 7 radiators, 1 in the downstairs hall. 5 on the second floor and 1 in the attic.  I will get the measurements later today.

The problems are with the boilers.  They are old, leaking and not efficient. The heat appears to be fine.

 I will take pictures of the boilers later today as well.



Thank you.

jean978

First Floor Apartment Boiler, Piping & Radiators

If I did this correct, I got 158.4 square feet radiation.  I put in the sizes of each radiator under picture name. Hopefully this shows up.



First Estimate  

    1. Steam gas fired

    2. HE Gas, converting steam rads to water

Second Estimate

     1. Steam-gas fired

     2. Install 1 Zone Baseboard FHW w/gas boiler-He preferred this

Third Estimate

     1. Remove steam and oil.  Convert to forced hot air by gas.  He said being           the first floor with full basement access, it would not be that difficult. 

The fourth company, the gas company recommended.  He would not even give me an estimate.  Too may things out of code, too many permits, all kinds of issues.  I think he preferred to stay with oil.



It certainly appears that each has their own preference. Oil and/or steam are not favorites.



Both boilers go into the same chimney.  The outside dimension of the chimney is 17" X 25.5".  I do not know how many flues.  Would this be a problem?



I will post the upstairs boiler and radiators later this pm.



Thank you for all your help.





     

jean978

Previous N/A Posts

These are also me.  Every time I log in, my password needs to be reset and N/A shows up.

jean978

Radiator Sizes

It doesn't look like you can see the radiator sizes.

Living room

  25"H, 34"W, 6"D,   5 Columns,  20 Sections,   48.0 SF?

Bedroom 1

  25"H, 24"W, 3"D,   3 Columns,  14 Sections,    25.2 SF?

Bedroom 2

  25"H, 24"W, 3 1/2"D,  3 Columns, 14 Sections,  25.2 SF?

Bath

  25"H, 16. 1/2"W, 6"D,  5 Column, 10 Sections,  24.0 SF?

Kitchen

  22"H, 34"W, 4 3/4"D,  4 Columns, 20 Sections,  36.0 SF?

Is this 158.4 square feet of radiation?

BobC

look for more quotes

Your radiator numbers look reasonably close and it indicates the present boiler is grossly oversized. Steam systems are usually sized to the sq footage of the radiators but if the 159 sq ft is accurate that works out to about a 38,000 BTU heat load. Also the old boilers do not look like they were piped correctly.



It sounds like some of the contractors you have talked to are not really interested in steam, probably because they are not familiar with it. gas is a lot cheaper than oil right now and your chimney doesn't sound like an issue, are there ay fireplaces that vent through it?



Forced hot air might be ok for the first floor as long as you don't have to live with it, it just isn't as comfortable a source of heat. What city is this and have you looked at the find a contractor (search by state and city, not zip) tab of this site? A good steam man could probably come very close to the hot air price and result in more comfortable heat. Also remember a cheap hot air furnace is not going to last nearly as long as a good steam boiler.



Bob

Charlie from wmass

Jean where are you located?

978 is the area code of parts of MA I frequent. Call me through my ad here and I would be happy to talk more about your system.