Might be puchasing a home with original 1950's boiler?

nowwhatnapster

Hey everyone I'm just looking to get some guidance. I am trying to purchase a house that will likely need a new boiler. Let me give you a little background info first:



I found this forum a little over a year ago. Back then I had just done my first house inspection on a 1920's house with a dated pasemaker boiler. Unfortunately the boiler was not the only thing needing replacement. Roof, mold and termite damage to mention a few. Add in some greedy home owners (its an estate) and the sale was dead as a doornail. If anyone is interested it is still for sale. :-)



/end rant



So here we are 1 year later and I just got an accepted offer on house #8. This one is a brick ranch built in 1950, 2 car garage, .5Acre, 3BR, 1BTH, 1250SqFt. and one very old boiler. I was only able to snap a quick photo with my phone while visiting the house with my realtor. (see attached photo) Not much to go on there, but it looks pretty damn old. Possibly even original to the house. It's an oil burner. I am fairly certain gas is not available, but I will be double checking tomorrow. It was definitely still working. I could feel the heat radiating off of it. The hot water heater seemed slightly newer. In the 70+ houses I looked at I had never seen a "square" water heater. The house is poorly insulated and it has those cast iron radiators that are inset in the walls. Great for floor space, but I believe they loose a bit more heat to the outside. I am also fairly certain the radiators are fairly oversized. There is minimal insulation in the attic and I will assume there is none in the walls. Its a brick house, but I will assume there is still a decent wall cavity. I plan on insulating the attic before 2012 winter sets in. *edit* I think i also saw a room that had aluminum baseboard radiators, so its a mixed system.



I'm just looking to get some direction here. Anything you feel is relevant please throw it my way.



I was hoping someone knows of a good heat loss calculator/software. I want to do some calculations on my own so I can get a feel for what I will need. I can easily google a calculator, but I'm no expert and I can't tell a good calculator from a bad one.



Also, I have a connection with a plumber who seems to be very well reviewed. He usually installes Peerless boilers. I think that brand is fairly reputable. What do you think of peerless?



What sort of efficacy should I be aiming for on a oil furnace. I am assuming I will need to line my chimney and get a condensing boiler. I have no idea what sort of efficacy for condensing boilers I should be looking at. It seems like 80-85 is fairly normal. I have seen a few in the 90's.

STEVEusaPA

Oldieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

Please remember, you're not suppose to discuss pricing.

It's definately old, probably a gravity system (did you see any circulators?)

You are correct to start with a full heat loss, and replace with a new, non-condensing oil boiler, unless you can get gas on your street.  Then you can go with a mod-con, or even propane. The new one will be much smaller.  And you could eventually do youre domestic hot water off of it when the hot water heater goes.

Chimney lining is definately recommended, considering you'll only need a 5 or 6 inch flue.  You really should have the unit evaluated before putting it into service.  One like this I saw in the fall, similiar situation, was burning with best adjustment over 1000ppm of carbon monoxide in the flue, with about 8ppm around the appliance.  So it was replaced.

Peerless is fine, just make sure you get a boiler with a swing out door for inspection and cleaning.  Also even without the new regs, you should get outdoor reset, and definitatly make sure (if its non-condensing) that the plumber put in a bypass line (or 4way mixing).  If he doesnt know what that is, or says you dont need it, you should find someone else.  Burnham MPO is also a nice cast iron boiler.

Before you do the heatloss, you really have to figure out the insulation.  It will make a big difference in the size of your boiler, and you dont ever want to oversize.  And consider if you're replacing the windows, also will affect boiler size.  With a heatloss program, you can put the info in as is, get your total loss, then with upgraded windows, and insulation, and get your total loss.  Once again, dont oversize.

For programs, why not have the contractor do the heat loss.  If he doesnt own the software, and he should, usually the supply house has great (expensive) software and will perform the heatloss for contractors who buy from them as a courtesy.  Slantfin has a free program to download.  You do need a working knowledge of doing a heat loss to get accurate numbers.

billtwocase

that's an old Smith Mills

probably oversized no doubt. As Steve mentioned, we don't discuss pricing. I would have a pro do a heat loss, and look at your options. There are many qualified guys here, and possibly near you. . Click on "find a contractor" above.  Good luck

nowwhatnapster

The verdict is in. It's old.

Sorry about the pricing, just rolled off my fingertips, wasn't thinking.



We just did the house inspection. The boiler is in fact a Smith Mills, Model 100, circa 1950. Original to the house.  After reviewing the video I took of the house inspection there is indeed

a circulatory pump attached to the boiler. Bright red just like my

grandma's house.

Boiler Pressure: 12

Temp: 130

Draft Over Fire -.02

At Breech -.08

Are those numbers good? I know the furnace is not efficient, just trying to understand the numbers.

Furnace is hooked up to a Phase III, 36 gallon, hot water heater, approximately 10 years old.



275 gal. indoor oil tank, 5 years old.



The boiler temperature did go down to about 120 after running all the hot water sources during the inspection, however, the hot water coming out of the faucets registered 158F! yikes. Those tenants must like hot showers.



Biggest concern with the house after the inspection is the possibility of an undeground oil tank. What oil tank was in use before this 5 year old one? Basement is too full of crap to figure out if an underground tank existed. We spoke with fire marshal, oil company, and current owners, but no one was able to confirm/deny existence of an underground oil tank. So we took the risk and waived our house inspection contingency.



I will certainly figure out what we plan to do with insulation/upgrades before we replace the furnace. I will let the contractor do the heatloss, however if I have the ability to do it myself I would want to simply so I know if the contractors numbers are in the ball park.



I just downloaded Slant fin. When I take ownership of the blue prints I will plug the numbers into slant fin and see what I come up with.