to Steamhead

chris22

I know you like Smith series 8. Do they make a boiler that covers 850 square feet of radiation? One installer wants to do a Peerless 64-07. Yes I understand about the installer being comfortable/experienced  in what he installs but I would rather have a Smith boiler for several reasons. Does Smith  make one that is rated for the same?  (will be using gas)

I understand that they can be direct vented?

Paul48

Are

you sure he said 64-07?

chris22

yes

Thats what it says on the proposal. Do you think its an error?

Paul48

You

could probably heat 5 or 6 or your houses with that semi-commercial boiler.Is that number you are giving the EDR?

chris22

Well

Its a 7 unit apt house. Doesn't the smallest 64 (07) fit for 850 radiation? 

Paul48

He

probably got that information off your existing equipment.The proper way to do it, is to figure the btus necessary for all the radiation. I stumbled  on this, to give you an idea of what I mean.. http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/other-downloads/boiler_replacement_guide.pdf  If all the units are the same, it's easy, do one and multiply by 7.

Rod

Wet Based Boilers for Gas

Hi Chris-  I believe Steamhead is in Japan at the moment but he does come on from time to time.  It looks like the biggest Smith 8 series boiler is a bit too small your purposes.

I gather you are looking for a wet based boiler approved for a gas power burner.  Slantfin Intrepid model has one but it is a little bit larger than the 850 EDR of you system. Possibily it could be down fired to match your EDR.  Whether it can be done or not is way above my steam expertise so you will need to run that by Steamhead as he's done a lot of both Slantfin and Smith using a gas power burner.

As Paul mentioned you might want to do a survey of your total radiator EDR yourself. I've attached a form which makes it easy to work out.

- Rod

Edit:   I should have included this in the post above.  As I was thinking you were mainly interested in a gas power burner boiler I didn't mention the Peerless.  I have a Peerless myself (an ECT) and have been very happy with its performance.

Hap_Hazzard

Peerless 64-07

The Peerless 64-07 is rated at 858 sqft.



All their IO&M manuals are available online:

http://peerlessboilers.com/Resources/Literature/TechnicalInformation/IOMManuals/tabid/86/Default.aspx

Paul48

I

shouldn't attempt math when I'm nodding off standing up.  That boiler works, but I would still double-check the radiators yourself. When I multiplied the EDR (in my head), I dropped one of those pesky "zeroes". Sorry for my confusion.

chris22

Thank you guys

Get information,Thank you Hap Rod and Paul! ..Yes I see that Steamhead is traveling and I hope its more vacation than work. I don't want to bother him with questions no matter which reason he is in Japan.



Yes the guy went into all apts and carefully measured each radiator and noted the types. Tube or column, counting sections etc. He seemed to know what he was doing in measuring radiation.



Maybe The Peerless is the best for this building but I liked the Idea of the Smith and an EZ Carlin gas gu.

 

Rod

Tekmar 279

Hi Chris- You might want to take a look at the Tekmar 279 control. It's a big overkill for a single dwelling but might be ideal in your apartment building situation. Look over the application and operating manual as it explains the operation.

http://tekmarcontrols.com/hvacsystems/279.html

- Rod

Paul48

IMHO

Using that assumes proper venting, properly balanced system, and thermostatically controlled radiation, and the presence of all those things make it unnecessary. IMHO

Steamhead

I'm back in the States

had a great vacation in Japan with The Lovely Naoko- only thing wrong was it was too short ;-)



I would definitely go with the Intrepid TR-60 over the Peerless 64-07. The Peerless 64 series isn't bad for an atmospheric, but you'll get better thermal efficiency out of the Intrepid with the power gas burner. The Carlin EZ-Gas we use on the smaller boilers would not be large enough for the TR-60, if you stay with Carlin you'd use the 201Gas. The Midco RE-4400DS or PowerFlame X4-400 should also work fine.



You would have to down-fire the TR-60 slightly to match your radiation, but that shouldn't be a problem as long as the stack temp is above 375° F or so. And a slight down-firing will give you a bit better efficiency too, since you're not trying to push as much heat thru the cast iron. It would also give you a bit more water content.



For the Peerless EC/ECT series, the EC-05 at 875 square feet would work, but it's maxed out at that capacity. I'd go with a slightly down-fired EC-06 for the same reasons I cited above. The same burner choices should work in this one too.



The Tekmar 279 would be a great way to control a boiler in this building, since it could be kept away from tenants so they couldn't tamper with it.

chris22

Thank you Steamhead

Welcome back!,.... I've always wanted to go to Japan, but my last trip was to Rio and while I liked being there, I hated the long ride.



Is the powerflame OK with the Intrepid warranty? Did I once see they only wanted Carlen or the Midco? In looking at all, I'm a bit more impressed w/the powerflame but of course, I don't have the knowledge to really be able  to say one is better than the other,..other than information of companies claims.



If it was your place,which burner would you use with the intrepid?

GarvinP

Also

looking at an Intrepid, I can't find any information that you can't use a Powerflame. I like the Powerflame ads I wonder why they couldn't be used on the intrepid. Hoping that it can 

Steamhead

I don't see why not

assuming it's one of the larger Intrepids. Which Intrepid are you looking at? 

Steamhead

We mostly use Carlin EZ-Gas on the smaller ones

but have used Midco EC series too. Haven't had issues with either, except the Carlin can be a bit loud sometimes. Haven't used PowerFlame on the larger Intrepids yet, but Steam Whisperer has with good results.

GarvinP

Its

The actually the same 64-07 as its for a large  5 unit apartment house.About the same radiation, so we were considering several units when I saw threads talking about the Intrepid series. "tryin' to do a little research and with the quality of the advice here, in the few areas that I know about, I think this is the best place for that!...

Steamhead

Chris and GarvinP

Not sure since I haven't called them, but PowerFlame may offer lo-hi-lo firing on the X4-400. If so, that's the way to go- you can drop the firing rate 25-30% or so when you build a few ounces of pressure, which will keep the boiler running steadily instead of wastefully stopping and starting on pressure.



Check with PowerFlame to be sure.

GarvinP

Thank you !

The lo-hi-lo firing,..would that be called "modulating mode of operation" on the standard features of the X4-400  on the brochure?

Steamhead

Maybe

went to a trade show today and talked to the PowerFlame rep. The usual hookup is a L91 modulating control, but Honeywell no longer makes one that works on ounces. I'm sure we could come up with something by switching fixed resistances with a Vaporstat to produce lo-hi-lo, but haven't had time to play with it.