Redesigned steam piping...

Kevin G_3

I was out at a customer house today to check a radiator that was not heating well. The customer had a contractor in to add heat to their attic. He proposed and installed 2 new steam radiators off one steam riser..

He removed 1 convector radiator that was in a cabinet and installed a cast iron 4 tube 6 section radiator. He then ran piping from the first radiator to the attic and installed a 6 tube 16 section radiator in the attic. The riser from the basement is 1 1/4" then drops to 1" to the attic and old new radiator

This is not something I would have done without researching first. I have not sized the radiators yet for there load capacity. I feel the riser would not handle the new capacity properly and also may have steam delivery issue's

What would the census be on this repipe job?

 I have attached some pictures of piping and new radiators..

Kevin

Paul48

And

the 6 section does not get hot? right?

furnacefigher15

There is no way

that the riser can handle both of them.



It might have been ok with just the replacement rad.



You'd need to run a dedicated feed from the main to the attic for that one to work.



Also you will need to calculated the EDR capacity of the all the radiators and make sure the boiler can handle what you need, then if so, calculate the size of the steam riser, and the run out to the riser to see if that will handle the radiator connected.



If you don't have it, order "the lost art of steam heating"

Rod

Checking Sizing

As Furnacefighter mentioned you have piping problems. I've attached a couple forms that may be of help to you. One is a table of how much EDR a pipe size can support. The second is a form for figuring out radiator EDR. He also made a good point of about checking the size of the boiler to make sure it can support the extra EDR of the new radiators. It most probably can unless the boiler is way undersized.

- Rod

Kevin G_3

Reply's

Thanks guys. I have the steam books from Dan and haven't had the time at home yet to check the radiators EDR. I agree that the riser shouldn't be able to heat both radiators properly. Especially when you add a 16 section radiator...

The customer would like to get a little better heat from the smaller radiator. I know the cost of running a new riser to the attic will be out of the question since the risers are built in the walls and not exposed through the house. My only thought was to remove the new Tee that was installed and turn the riser 90 to the small rad and the install the tee so the steam may go into the small rad a little more. Of course this seems like trouble also.

I will be seeing Dan on Tuesday at a local trade show.

Kevin

Paul48

I'll

apologize for this, up front......Put an arrow on the pipe, so the steam knows to take a left turn. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Lwbscenic

This is my house

Thanks for all of the comments. I have an update and another question. I was able to change out all of the stationary vents on the house radiators to vari-valves or similar adjustable ones. After that, I 3/4 closed the valves on the lower floor and near the thermostat expecting to force the heat to the second floor radiators first or faster. I full opened the valve on the questionable radiator in the guest room and partially closed on the one in the attic that is teed off of it. I pusehd the thermostat up to 75 and ran around the house with a laser temp measure. The guest room radiator did heat up faster and hotter, and likewise the one in the attic. All the rest followed what I expected and heated up a little later. This seems to be good news right? Now my question.



Do I need to be concerned that Im stopping down the vents on the majority of the radiators on the lower floors to heat up the second floor faster? They are all heating up eventually, but is there a concern for too much pressure or anything like that?



Second. Ive been reading on the wall and in Dan's book about system pressures and pressuretrol units. When I look on the side of my peerless boiler, I see the pressuretrol and it is set at just above 2 cut in and . Near that is the "internal Syphon" pressure gauge. When I was running the boiler the pressure was around 21 and since cutting off, is slowly going down. Based on what I read, this seems high, but its how it was when I bought the house...



Ive contacted Kevin, the original poster who came to my house. Waiting to see what he has to say, but your comments are appreciated





Cheers

Larry

Steamhead

Looks like a bad gauge

also have him check the pigtail under the pressuretrol if he hasn't already, to make sure it isn't plugged. 

Jason_13

Vent

Maybe I missed it but the vents on steam radiators are supposed to be below the halfway mark not up at the top.

Egad....21 psi....how could you afford the fuel bill?

On a one pipe steam system the radiator valves must be 100% wide open.

What is the height of the radiators?