new boiler with fin and tube bb.

kerry3578

Hello, I need help in understanding a mod con boiler with fin and tube bb. I measured my bb and there is 108.166 feet of it. The houses is 1987 sq ft ranch with a basement. I currently have a Utica gas boiler from 1986 and the water temp going out is set at 180f. It has two zones. I would like to update this boiler. My house is brick and there is insulation in the walls. The old silver back kind from 1967. It has new Windows and a lot of insulation in the attic. My question is if I go to a mod con boiler will I get the the high efficiency.

STEVEusaPA

of course you will.....however....

Youl'll also see savings with an outdoor reset control added to your boiler.  You're rads only need 180 degree water maybe 12 times a year.

If you go with a new boiler, make absolutely sure the installing contractor does a complete heat loss and sizes the boiler correctly.  With a mod/con, outdoor reset, and even adding dhw with an indirect, you'll see substantial savings. 

icesailor

System Temps:

Just because the boiler/system is set for 180 degrees, doesn't mean the radiation was designed to run at 180 degrees. Back then, a lot of designers went for no insulation in their design and added a lot more radiation than needed.

Set the high limit at 150 and see if the house stays warm. Even if it isn't design, if it stays warm.t is probably over radiated.

You need to do an ACCURATE heat loos on the building and then compare the heat loss for the room compared to the installed radiation.

Go with the Mod-Con

kerry3578

more info

Thanks for the information.  I'm making sure I get the best for my money.  I have been researching everything about mod-con boilers with fin and tube.  I have a utica boiler 150,000 input however it doesnt list the output.  I'm going to see if I can lower the water temp to 150 and if the house stays warm then it was over rad.  I will be checking for a true and accurate heat loss caculation.   I'm sure I will be on here shortly with some more question.

icesailor

Ratings:

The input and and output are sort of the same..

The one that is listed as IBR is the one to go by. That tells you that if you fire it at the rated GPH listed, it will heat to a building that looses that amount of heat and allows for 15% for incidentals like piping and pick-up unless there is unusual conditions. Using that number, as long as the load isn't above that amount, the boiler, in good condition, will provide that amount of heat. Any load that is under that, will be covered.

If you do an accurate heat loss of your building, and the number in BTU'e per hour, and you add 15% to that number, and the IBR rating is higher than that total number, then the boiler is supposed to be able to heat a building under design conditions. If your load is under that IBR number, the boiler is over sized

If you take the baseboard ratings for 180 degrees, and add up the baseboard, and the number is higher than the net heat of the building, pick another baseboard temperature. Like 160 degrees. If that number is still above what you need, lower it to 140 degrees. If that is under, go to 150 degrees. If that makes it, that is your system temperature.



I hope that makes sense to you.

kerry3578

getting more confused

I appreciate all the feed back.  I checked to see if I could lower the temp and the lowest setting is 180 on this old boiler.  I had a friend come over who is a commercial boiler installer.  He looked at my system and said the zone valves where on the outside and said he would put them on the return side.  I 'm not sure what side they should be on.  He also said I only have one pipe coming in for the return side.  He said it looks like they branched it off somewhere in the middle of the house. He said he would loop the return and inlet line and then connect 3 small pumps to the two different zones.  we also found another 42 feet of fin and tube in the center of the basement ceiling.   I just want to get a good heating system and cut down on my gas consumption.

kerry3578

heat loss calculation

My question is what's a good do it yourself heat loss calc. And when u have a ranch house with a basement do they take the basement into consideration? I do know I have approx 110 ft of fin and tube its 3/4 inch pipe and 6 fins per inch...the basement has approx 42 ft of fin and tube in the middle running along the ceiling. As I said before the house is 1987 sq ft...

icesailor

Comercial boiler piping:

Just because your friend works on commercial boilers, doesn't mean he knows or understands residential or light commercial systems.

You obviously have a zone valve system. You only need one circulator. Only one pipe leaves the boiler, and only one pipe returns. What happens in between is magic. Don't worry about your system. There's probably nothing wrong with it.



Don't start trying to re-pipe the world because someone doesn't understand how your system is piped or works.

IMO

kerry3578

heat loss calculation

Wow what does a guy have to do to get a heat loss calculation here in MI.  I have had three contractors come out and only one measured windows with me and then left with them.  One contractor didn't even come out and he gave me the boiler size and price.  The last guy came out looked at the boiler and said he would have pricing ready in a few days on three different models.  All of them looked at my current boiler which was installed in 1987 and is 150000 btu input and 124000 doe output and 107000 ibr and approx 110 ft fin and tube upstairs and 42 ft in the basement. which number do we go buy for the heating of the house?  Most of the guys i asked about the heat loss calc they looked like a deer in headlights.  Everything I have read on this forum is to get a heat loss calculation so the boiler isn't over sized or undersized plus I want to save money not have it burn away in gas....

STEVEusaPA

It's unfortunate

But you really have to find a better contractor. Look on the bright side, you already eliminated 3. Did you check the 'find a contractor' tab? Be vigilant, and ask the contractor about the need for a complete heat loss to be done before he comes out. If they don't know what you're talking about, move on. At the very least, a contractor should be able to quote you a price, based on the same size boiler, with the complete understanding that if you accept the offer, a complete heat loss will be performed, and a complete design will be presented, before the job starts, and any equipment ordered.

To answer a few questions, the only true number is the btu requirements form the heat loss. The amount of radiations will be used to size zones, and temperatures.

STEVEusaPA

Sorry....double post