Gorton #1 vents

ToddB

This weekend I installed new Gorton vents on antlers on each of my two one pipe mains.  Previously one main had a single Gorton #1 and the other had a Vent Rite (cannot read the number).  Now I have four Gorton #1s on each main (the mains are about the same length).  I am now getting steam to the ends of the mains at the same time. 

I am observing the following with the new vents:

1.  I can now feel air venting.  Previously I think that only one vent was really working effectively. 

2.  The vents are noisy at both locations (sounds like boiling) for a short time right before they close.

Is this noise normal?  Otherwise the overall system seems to be running the same as previously. 

Photos of install attached.

Thanks

Long Beach Ed

Wet Steam

If the steam's wet or there's water in the main they'll make a little noise.  No problem if they are shutting.  Check your pitch. 



Must be a very long or big main to require that kind of venting!

ToddB

Wet steam

I did not think that I had wet steam.  The water level in the glass drops a maximum of about 3" during steaming and all condensate returns quickly at the end of a heating cycle.

The mains are about 105' feet long each, 2 1/2" diameter.     

crash2009

Two 45's

I think I heard that sound on mine before.  Does it sound kinda like a soap bubble popping?  If so, that is what happened to me, the popping eventually caked up the vents and I had to take them down and clean them with CLR.  What I noticed on mine was that the antler was not draining back into the main.  The way I corrected mine was to remove the 90 and used two 45's.  This allowed me to slope the antler so it would drain back into the main.



Before and After

ToddB

Noise

No, it sounds like boiling or blowing water in a liquid with a straw, and then ends when the vents close.  The antler in the second photo is pitched well to drain to the end of the main.  The first photo antler is almost flat, but still pitched a bit to drain.  I will try two street elbows at that location - thankyou  for the suggestion.  Vents at both locations produce the same noise regardless of pitch.

I am sort of baffled - I have not had any problems with my radiator vents.

Steamhead

We've noticed that gurgling too

but it doesn't seem to be a problem. If everything is working as it should, I'd leave it as is. 

gerry gill

looks fine.

I don't see an issue that has to be dealt with as long as they do close.

ToddB

Thank you

Thank you for all of your input.  Much appreciated.

ToddB

Update

I'm now having a problem with the main vents that I installed last February. The vents themselves are working, but I am finding that water collects in the antler in the first photo. The other one is consistently dry. I replaced the elbow shown in the photo with two 45s, but the pitch is still not enough to prevent water collection in the piping. Any ideas to solve this problem? Am I missing something with the adjustment of the 45 elbows to pitch the antler properly? Thanks.

Hap_Hazzard

Try a longer nipple.

It doesn't look like you have a lot of room for it, unfortunately, but is there any way you can raise the antler a little higher above the main?

Hap_Hazzard

Try a longer nipple.

It doesn't look like you have a lot of room for it, unfortunately, but is there any way you can raise the antler a little higher above the main?

ToddB

Try...

Meaning a longer nipple below the union? Can you tell me how that would help with pitch, or would it just stop water from entering. I put a level on the top of the union with the vent installed and it is level. I was hoping that there was some way to pitch the antler.



I have about 3 1/2" from the top of the vents to the sub floor with the 45s installed.

ChrisJ

Noise

I certainly hear air pushing out of mine when the main is filling but I don't recall gurgling, at least not yet.



29' 2" main.  You'll notice mine is far from perfect, however the way I have it pitched it forced more water to drain from the tees and the stree ell on the other side has no issues draining with no pitch.

ToddB

Pitch

The problem that I have with pitch is that it is mounted to an area that is nearly level at the end of the main. If I were to rotate the end of the antler to the left (rotate it 180 degrees) it is pitched positively for drainage, but I thought that I read that it is better to have the antler oriented back to the main for water accumulation reasons.

Hap_Hazzard

I'm thinking pitch might not be the issue.

If both antlers are pitched the same amount then the difference has more to do with the main than the antler itself. If you think it's the pitch, give it more pitch by adjusting the 45s, but if it doesn't help, try raising it up.

ChrisJ

pitch

First thing I would do is swing it 180 degrees being its on a union. Regardless of what is said I have found sometimes things work that shouldn't and sometimes things that should don't.



Whats the worst that can happen? If you notice it sounds wetter swing it back around.



Also, can you change that vertical nipple out for a longer one? Even 1/2" longer? Every little bit there helps. IMO you should try that before the 45s but thats just my opinion. Luckily these parts are dirt cheap.

ToddB

Pitch

I think that pitch is the issue. The other antler has pitch and is dry. This antler is level.



How do I adjust the 45s for pitch?

Hap_Hazzard

Adjusting pitch

Replace the 90° elbow with two 45s. Then you can achieve anywhere from 0–90° by rotating them.

ToddB

Replaced..

I have replaced the 90 with 45s. How do I adjust the 45s to get more pitch?

ToddB

Pitch

I did swing the antler 180 degrees. The system has only run once since then because it is so warm out, but there was virtually no water in the antler. I will see how it looks in time.



I will see about the height of the antler and putting in a longer nipple. With the two 45s installed the bottoms of the vents are 7 1/2" from the top of the main. I don't want to push the vents too much closer to the floor if I don't have to. How far are your vents from the sub floor?

Hap_Hazzard

45s

The way you have them now they combine to make a 90 degree bend in the pipe. That's one extreme. If you rotate the upper 45 180°, your antler will be sticking straight up in the air, as the two 45s will just zig and zag and cancel each other out. That's the other extreme. Somewhere between those two extremes you find whatever angle you're looking for.



This is something you'll just need to play with by taking those joints apart and hand tightening them and trying out different alignments, then tighten them up in the same orientation.

ChrisJ

Distance

The four Gorton 1's shown are maybe 2 inches from the floor. On my short main I have a single Hoffman 4A which is an inch if that, but I have foil tape on the wood to protect it from any steam.

ToddB

Got it

Thank you. I will give it a try.

nicholas bonham-carter

Main vent noise=resistance

If you can hear the air rushing out, then I would say you need more venting capacity.

Can you drill and tap into the vertical drop to the wet return?--NBC

ChrisJ

Air rushing our

NBC,  with all due respect I feel I have to disagree with you on this, at least at this time.



I hear air rushing out of my main vents as well, four Gorton 1s on a 29' 2" main.  Just the other night I was in the crawl space listening to them and after the vents closed I crawled out, closed the door and walked in side taking my time.  By that time not a single radiator had steam to the valve yet including the ones closest to the boiler.  I've considered adding even more vents to that main but I have to think why when the system is balanced perfectly.



*shrug*

nicholas bonham-carter

Two different types of balance

There is your balance in which the steam gets to the ends of the mains at the same time, and then there is the balance of resistance, in which each main has equally low resistance to the escaping air.

As a result of the low resistance of all main venting, no steam will start up a close riser before the steam is at the end, because the resistance of the slower radiator vents makes the steam wait until the main vents have closed.

I had to overcome this type of problem with a flower-box drip irrigation system (3 runs of 500 feet each on 3 corners). I didn't want the emmiters in the boxes closest to the water source to start getting water well before the ends furthest away, so the same principle was used, large water supplies, with high resistance smaller tubes into the boxes. It worked well as long as pigeons did not pull the tubes out of the main pipe!

Anyway, that is the type of balance I look for, and maybe I could even explain it better with more thought.--NBC

ChrisJ

Depends

I feel I use that slight resistance to my advantage.   I have two radiators that have 20+ feet of runout to each.  I have a Gorton C on each and that slight amount of resistance the main venting provides helps give those two radiators a head start albeit not much.   Being many radiators have maybe 2 or 3 feet of pipe emptying out 20 feet at the same time is kind of rough. 

Maybe I'm wrong and I should increase venting, I am wrong from time to time believe it or not.

ToddB

Nice...

Works well now with a pitch. No water accumulation found yet. Thank you.

SusanC

Question about Antlers, Candelabras ..

Nowadays in pictures here I see the Gorton 1's in a line; several years ago there was a schematic where they extended on both sides of the vertical pipe going up from the main.  Does it make a difference and, if so, which configuration is considered advisable?

nicholas bonham-carter

antler versus menorah

both configurations work.--nbc