Boiler Lost All Water

FJL

The heat hasn't turned on since sometime yesterday maybe. I can't be sure. T-stat is now calling for heat and heat is not on. I went downstairs to the boiler and found it had no water. I guess the LWCO must have turned it off.



I just had the auto water feeder rebuilt on Feb 2 and it was working.



What would cause a boiler to lose all of its water? The basement is not flooded. All pipes from the boiler feed to a drain, and the drain cover has been moved from the drain a few inches, which suggests it gushed out all at once.



I have gas Burham IN11, one pipe steam.



I hope this is not catastrophic. I have call in tech guy. I have turned off the gas, but the boiler was not firing anyway.

nicholas bonham-carter

Low water

Has the boiler lost water to the waterline, or is it now completely empty?

What pipes are leading over to the drain? Is the drain wet?

FJL

Good Questions

Good questions from NBC as always.  Let me clarify the information.



I shouldn't have said that the boiler lost all water.  The sight glass is empty and there is still moisture inside of it.  My sight glass was configured to sit just above the lowest point water line marking, so I can't say if the water has fallen below that line. If I can find a photo I'll post it.  I am not home right now, so this is by memory. 



I think the drain top being moved is a non-issue b/c the tech was here Sat flushing and cleaning the boiler, so the drain top was probably moved then and not moved back afterwards. 



To answer your question, there are several pipes of different sizes that feed into the drain, which is about the size of a tennis ball.  I don't know what all of them are, but one of the two LWCO is piped so that when I flush it each week the water goes into the drain.  The main outlet pipe from the bottom of the boiler also feeds into that drain.  I don't know what the others are.



As I said, the boiler room is not flooded.  It is still a bit damp from when the tech was here on Sat flushing the boiler and refilling it.  The drain does not look wet.



I know that the boiler was producing steam as of Sunday afternoon, but after that I just don't recall.  The weather has been mild.  For me, the apt was noticeably colder when I got up this morning.



I am hoping that the problem is with the auto water feeder, which was just repaired.  It must have malfunctioned and caused the water to drop, at which point one of the two LWCO on the boiler turned off the boiler. 

When I went down this morning, everthing seemed normal but for the fact that the sight glass was empty.  No unusal smells.  No sounds at all. 



One more thing -- I have a second LWCO installed, as I have alluded to.  I think this one is the probe LWCO.  It has a green light and a red light on top of it.  It was lit up as I have always seen it -- green light on and red light off. This one is set a little bit lower than the other one with the auto feeder and is a ball drop LWCO.  Hopefully, this means that the ball LWCO tripped the boiler off before the water dropped low enough to trip the second probe LWCO.

FJL

Intake Valve turned off . . .

My tech guy has relayed a message that he might have forgotten to open up the intake valve on the autfo feeder before leaving on Sat.  I hope it is nothing more than that.  I'll find out later tonight when he gets here.  Thankfully, temps today are mild. 



Nice day for a parade

FJL

All Is OK

LWCO turned off boiler when the water level dropped too far. Auto water feeder wasn't filling the boiler b/c the intake valve was turned off.

ba123

All the warter in 1 day?

Just a homeowner here, so feel free to ignore, but are you saying that all the water from the boiler was lost in about 1 day?  I understand the autofeeder was off, but even so this seems like a lot of water to lose in only a few firings, especially since the LWCO was probably shutting down the boiler more often than usual.  Or maybe I'm mistaken -- wouldn't be the first time :-)

BobC

That is a lot of water to lose

Your auto water feeder was repaired on Feb 2 and now the water level has dropped 3-4" in your sight glass since then. That is a lot of water to go through, I use less than 1/2" in 3 weeks and even that is too much.



Check around for any leaks on the radiators or boiler.



Bob

FJL

Return Pipe Leaking

We discovered a leak in the return pipe. The pipe is partially imbedded in the concrete and was covered by dirt. I noticed that the dirt above this section of pipe was was damp. We moved away that damp dirt and found that the pipe has a leak. Needless to say, the boiler's use of so much fresh water has caused other problems.

FJL

Less time than that

The auto feeder was fixed on 2/2. The boiler was serviced on 2/4 by being flushed and cleaned. The water was at a proper level as of mid afternoon on 2/5, so it lost that much water since then. The leak in the return explains everything.

BobC

Glad to hear that

Better to find a leak in a pipe than in the boiler!



Non

JK_3

Wet Steam????

I am servicing this boiler. On 2/6 we discovered the leak in the wet return. The water loss has been substantial. One of my concerns is that some of the rad vents keep puffing through the cycle. It sounds like wet steam. I am also seeing a lot of sludge build up way to quickly that I attribute to the constant fresh water being added. I am wondering could this much make up water cause the vents to be sticking and puffing even 15' higher then the header. The header is nicely configured and is a drop header but seems to be carrying water all the way up. I also note that at the end of the cycle the system goes to tremendous vacuum but again I believe that the leak in the wet return is causing this. Any other thoughts or ideas would be appreciated as always.   thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

tremendous vacuum

i think the sludge could be dirt vacuumed up into the return through the leak. the return and boiler should have a good flush after the repair. replacing the pipes will also put some more oil into the system, so a lesson for the homeowner in the gentle art of skimming will be necessary as well.

there should not be a persistent vacuum in the system, unless it was designed with that in mind. the main vents will need to be checked/enlarged to prevent that. possibly the spitting vents are the water held up in the return by vacuum then being expelled by pressure. check to make sure none of the rad/main vents are vacuum models [eg hoffman 76].

after the repair, cut off the auto-fill for the rest of the winter, so any further leaks can be found.--nbc

FJL

For JK

JK,



Here is the thread about the controls: http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/140226/New-V-stat-Header

crash2009

Header

You reported that the header seemed to be carrying water all the way up into the system.  Even though it's a dropheader, and appears to be configured correctly.  I understand that you are looking at it covered with insulation.  My hunch, as well as I am sure yours is, "What is wrong with the header?"  I remembered seeing some pictures that FJL posted a long time ago, so I went looking for them, and found them.  When I looked at the pictures I noticed that riser 1 enters the header from the side.  Then I looked at the Burnham piping diagram, and it didn't match to me.  Nice thing about The Wall is if you have a question, it will get answered.  So, I started a new thread to get some answers about the header.  http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/140318/Burnham-IN11-Header-Question#p1257858 

FJL

Flushing the System

Some residents are concerned about using a chemical cleanser to clean and flush the system.  Do people consider the chemical cleanser needed to properly clean and flush the system?

Steamhead

We prefer not to use chemicals

except in real stubborn cases. The problem with chemicals is that you have to get them completely out of the system when you're done, which can be difficult.



It's better to let the boiler cool down completely, then flush it out with a hose. Follow that with a good skim and you should be OK.

FJL

Stubborn Case

I suspect mine falls into that category. Visit the link in a post posts above and see how clogged the tee connected to the v-stat got. I would like to avoid chemicals if I could.