thin tube radiator top heating?

ChrisJ

I have 9 large tube radiators and a single thin tube radiator.

The thin tube radiator is 60 sqft EDR and I noticed it definitely topheats first by a lot.





Is it worth trying the old pipe in radiator trick or will it not have much of an effect?   Will the radiator actually fill with steam over time or does this cause air to be trapped no matter what?

If I do want to try a pipe, how hard is it to get one of those plugs out? 



The first picture is from before we moved in,  I wish the house was that empty again.

icesailor

Moving the Steam:

I'm not in any way, an expert on Steam. If someone says that this won't work, they are right.

I've done this with hot water radiators more than once. But I put the pipe in the end with the valve and run it out to 3/4ths of the sections. 12 section radiator, stop in the eighth section.

It's a lot easier to get the valve/union apart, and flop the radiator on its side so you can get a radiator/spud wrench inside the radiator. You want to get the largest pipe inside the radiator. You are trying to get the air and steam to the farther end of the radiator. The water has to go down the same hole that the steam come in through.

I can see and understand where the problems lie, But nothing tried is nothing gained. Can the vent be moved to the other end of the radiator? Will the Steam Pros suggest drilling and tapping the other end of the radiator? That seems like it might be helpful.  

crash2009

Ice

JPF says it does work, and has the video to prove it.  http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/139700/a-puzzle-for-all-you-super-smart-steamies

nicholas bonham-carter

more even radiator steam distribution

that sounds like something to try first, the second vent at the other end. the 2 of them may pull air out more evenly from the sections.

putting in a tube seems like a difficult job for this time of the year, now that winter seems to be returning!--nbc

ChrisJ

vent

I'm not sure which side of the radiator you are suggesting to put a vent on and here is why.



When we moved in the radiator had two vents, one on each end.  I removed the vent from the pipe side of the radiator and plugged the hole with a brass plug.  The radiator now has a single Hoffman 1A on the side towards the corner.



I'm just not sure if you are able to see the vent on the pipe side and are assuming its still there / the only one?





Crash, that was the thread that got me thinking about this.

Mark N

Short Circuiting

Chris is this rad short circuiting? If it isn't I don't think the result will be worth the effort or the possibility of cracking the rad. When you put a pipe across the upper nipples of a rad it will make the rad act like a old column rad which had no connections across the top of the sections. Steam is lighter than air and will rise to the top of the rad.

ChrisJ

short circuiting

Not sure what short circuiting means, I'm going to assume it means the end gets hot before the middle? I don't believe it does that though I have seen 1 section not get hot while the one after it does.



The only thing I noticed was the hot of it gets cooking while the bottom stays cold but I've never actually had the system run long enough to fill the whole thing yet. I've got it vented slow to keep that room in balance with other rooms.

Mark N

Short Circuiting

A rad is short circuiting when the steam uses the upper nipples to shoot across the rad and close the vent before it heats properly.

ChrisJ

Yep

That sounds like how this one is behaving.



I'm going to go ahead and assume thin tube radiators don't work as well as thick tube or column radiators for steam?

Mark N

Tube vs Column Rad

I have thin tube rads in my home all are Weil-McLain. They work fine I have no problems. At Work I have column rads in my office. The only difference I can see is the column rads have a tendency to heat section by section were as the tube rads start to heat across the top first and then work there way down the sections

Dave in QCA

hot water radiators on steam

The original steam radiators were connected only at the bottom.  The could not be used for hot water.  The heating pattern of those radiators was that the sections pretty much warmed one at a time and as they heated they came up to full temperature while in partial cycles, the remainder of the radiator would remain stone cold. 

When modern 2-pipe systems were introduced, it was suggested that the inlet would be at the top and the outlet trap at the opposite side at the bottom.  It was describe that the steam coming in the top would create some turbulence within the radiator, with a resulting rotational movement of steam and air in the radiator and this would cause the radiator to slowly warm up in a more gradual manner throughout the radiator than the manner that old one pipe steam only radiators heated.  This softer heating of the entire radiator was seen as a desirable characteristic. 

The use of water type radiators was also applied to 1-pipe setups.  The rules are that you can use a hot water type radiator for either steam or hot water, but a steam only radiator can only be used to steam.  The fact is that the hot water type radiator will work just fine when operated on steam.  Its heating pattern will be different with the steam migrating across the top of the radiator first, but it will partially heat on a partial steaming cycle, and it will completely heat on a full steaming cycle. 



JPF has played with altering hot water radiators to effect that pattern that they heat up, but end result as to the total amount of heat that the radiator can give off, ie the effective EDR is probably not changed, or if it is, the effect is probably insignificant when it comes to delivering heat to a room.