Vent replacement suggestion

SteamBeez

Hello,



I am new to steam heat this year (well owning a system, I lived in NYC for a decade with it). Anyway, my first problem was uneven heat between floors which was solved by insulating the basement pipes. Next is the vents. Currently I have two Ventrite 75's on my mains and a mixed bag of Dole 1933 and Hoffman 1A's on my rads. My home is pretty small, 9 total rads (4 downstairs, 5 upstairs). Pressure looks good at .5/2.0 from what I understand. The issue I have is whistling upstairs which is annoying for sleeping. I cleaned all the vents which helped some, but it is still a bit of an issue. The 1A's look like they are more recent, the Doles are ancient. I was thinking of replacing the mains with the Gorton #1's as I understand they have much more venting capacity than the Ventrite 75s. I was also thinking I should just replace all the radiator valves as well. Per guidelines, Gorton # 4 next to TS, # 5 on first floor, #6's upstairs (maybe one C in the bedroom which has the largest radiator and is the coldest room). Am I thinking about this correctly or should I just replace the mains and see how that goes. My guess is some of the old rad vents are shot and not closing correctly but I'm not an expert. Thanks! Oh and btw, the mains are 2". I think about 40 ft total but I am not home now to measure. It's about 1200 of total heating space in the house which is more taller than wider (20's colonial).

crash2009

Main Vents

You probably should measure the mains to be exact.  Based on 40 feet of 2" that gives you about a half a cubic foot(.492) of air to get rid of.  For main venting I have been advised to use the 1 oz scale from  http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/146/Balancing-Steam-Systems-Using-a-Vent-Capacity-Chart-by-Gerry-Gill-and-Steve-Pajek  If your plan is to put in 2 Gorton 1's (2 X .330) you have estimated pretty good.  Two Gorton 1's will vent a little over a half a foot (.660 cfm)



Noisy radiator vents is a symptom of a main vent problem.  Take care of the mains first.  The radiator vents might not need to be replaced.

SteamBeez

Re: Main Vents

Thanks for the info and link.  And for a $10 donation to NYCares a little knowledge on balancing is worth the investment....

SteamBeez

Re: Main Vents

Thanks for the info and link.  And for a $10 donation to NYCares a little knowledge on balancing is worth the investment....

crash2009

Dole

If you ever want to get rid of the Doles, contact me

SteamBeez

Doles

Are the Doles known for being reliable? Just curious as to why you might want some old vents. Also I measured the mains and they are about 33' each, almost totally symmetrical with the Vent Rite 75's.

crash2009

Dole adjustable 1-6?

I don't know much about the reliability.  I like the cfm numbers.  Basicly they can vent the same as a Gorton 4, 5, or 6 and anything in between.  So they look very flexible.  That is one reason I suggested you not jump into replacing them.  But if you are give me a call.  I might have a use for them.

SteamBeez

Yep...

They are Dole 1-6 adjustable....I am going to fuss with the mains first. If I decide to replace I will let you know. The paint got all rippled when I boiled them in vinegar. I guess it was necessary though as all sorts of crud came out.



Now...as for the mains, I calculate 0.759 cf of air with 33' pipes. Would it make sense to run a pair of Gorton #1's on EACH main or just one per main? I dont have the clearance for a #2 even if I wanted to as I have hot water pipes in the way.

crash2009

.759 is a tough number to hit

33 X .023 cf per foot = .759 cf each.  Ventrite 75 does .116 cf, Gorton 1 does .330 cf, Hoffman 75 does .500 cf, Gorton 2 does 1.100 cf.  You sure thats a 2" main? 



Can we see a picture?

SteamBeez

Pic...

Heres a pic of the system. Let me know if this is sufficient.



As for the Doles, I looked them up and I think they are the 1A Vari-vent. However, not sure if this makes sense, but when I removed them to clean, none had tongues like they do on the spec sheet. What does that mean? Would they be broken off or did they not have them on the old ones? They certainly click a lot on and off.



http://tunstallonline.com/Dole_air_valve.pdf

Abracadabra

vents missing the siphon

Dole 1Aa should have the siphon on there.  The older ones had a brass siphon.  The newer ones had a plastic siphon which often broke off in the radiator.





It's interesting to note that in that  Dole brochure, Dole states that the system needs to hit 2 psi minimum.

SteamBeez

Guess they are...

Looks like they should be replaced then. As for the psi, the site says they are designed to vent fast in pressure below 2psi.

Steamhead

Two Gorton #1 vents per main should work

and you can add more if needed. Or, you can install shorter risers to make room for one Gorton #2 per main.

SteamBeez

Adding vents

If I add a pair of # 1's for each main, should I use a T or antler config?



Any recs on replacing the busted Doles? Variable or fixed?

crash2009

Antler

You could use the low profile antler.  The union comes in real handy at cleaning time.  Also, the antler can be rotated for easy access, it doesnt "have to" be burried in the way of the water pipes.  You could use 2 -45's instead of a 90 to get the slope, the antler has to drain slightly.

Abracadabra

at least 2psi

Sorry, I was reading the notes for the 1933 non-adjustable radiator vent.

SteamBeez

New Main Vents Installed

I just finished installing the dual Gorton #1s on each main. Was pretty simple. I didn't think I would have had the clearance for a single #2 on the far pipe (As you can see the far one just barely squeezes between the hot water pipes as well), but after setting up I definitely could have fit one each in there up between the ceiling joists. I had to swing the near antler out to get the right pitch but upon firing up seemed to work well. I'll see tonight how it pans out. With 6x the venting capacity per main with the new set up, it has to be miles of improvement. The next few days will be good to test.



Overall anyone see any issues with this setup? First timer here....

crash2009

I see

 what you mean now.  It sure is tight up there.  Clean install, the pipe dope looks invisible.  If you were wondering how those vents work, here is a great video  http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/GetPage?pid=610