Hot water baseboard warm, not hot

Pharon

Hello,



I have a 4-zone hot water boiler. Three of the zones work fine, but one zone handles the main part of the house, both 1st and 2nd floors. On the 2nd floor, I have radiators in 3 rooms and cast iron baseboard in one room. The radiators heat up fine, but the baseboard only ever gets warm to the touch (same problem with the baseboard on the 1st floor). I recently drained the system and replaced all the air bleeder valves, thinking that maybe the problem in there was an air pocket, but that doesn't seem to be the case.



Is there a simple way to determine whether there's a blockage in the pipes that feed this baseboard, or a way to balance the system better? The pressure gauge on the boiler fluctuates between 10-15 psi. Max is set at 180 degrees F, min at 140 (used to be 160/200 but still had the same problem).



I thought it might just be a problem inherent with cast iron baseboard heating itself, but one of the zones has them and they work beautifully.



Attached is a pic -- I realize that the carpet is restricting the convection efficiency, but that shouldn't change whether or not the baseboard itself gets hot to the touch or not, correct?



<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/SuperFan99/DSCF0011.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="" />

STEVEusaPA

Is this a

New problem? If its always been this way, then more then likely it's a piping or design problem. Is the baseboard rad after the column radiators? If so, their just may not be enough btus left to get the job done.

You really need to get someone in there to completely go over the system and diagnose the problem(s). Could be anything from bad balancing, bad balancing valves, stuck or bad flow checks, bad circulator, bad control, etc.

You might just need it properly bled. But after that, if you're not getting any air, to quote DH, 'it ain't an air problem'.

furnacefigher15

Original part of the house.

From the sounds of it, the baseboard was a replacement for radiators. Maybe to free up space, or maybe to replace a leaking radiator.



If those baseboards have never heated, then it's a balance problem likely resulting from the difference in length between the radiator that was there, and the baseboard that replaced it.



If the original part of the home is on what is know as a monoflo system, this is the likely issue.



Take some pictures of the piping in the basement and post. I could see for sure.

JK_3

are the pipes ?

Are the inlet/ outlet pipes to these baseboards hotter then the baseboard itself.

I have found many times that the amount and type of paint on these make them cooler to the touch. Also as a note they will not circutate heat to the room effectivly if the air cannot circulate underneath the front (blocked by carpet).

Pharon

Pics

Thank you for the replies.



I think the house used to have a steam system that was at some point converted to hydronic. One zone is for the main house, one for the kitchen, one for the den (addition) and one for the garage (converted to a studio apartment). The main house zone is dealing with a large volume of water, so maybe it's just having difficulty getting to that section of the 2nd floor. The circulator pump I have is a Taco 007 (1/25HP). Would changing it out to a larger one (0010, 1/8HP) potentially solve the problem?



I think that there is a master loop for this zone that wraps around at the basement level and there are vertical taps that hit different sections of the house. The baseboards are tied together. Not sure if these pics help or not:



















[quote]Are the inlet/ outlet pipes to these baseboards hotter then the baseboard itself.[/quote]

No, they are the same temperature, which is barely higher than room temperature.

furnacefigher15

Those Tee's

On the main loop (large steel pipe) with the hexagonal sides look like old cast iron Monoflo Tees.



Can you tell what pipes feed the baseboard in question?

Mark N

Baseboard

My mother had a baseboard on her monoflo tee system that wouldn't heat. She had someone come in to take a look at it. Basically for some reason it was full of some type of sludge so they cleaned it out and now it heats fine.

billtwocase

I would also

check the baseboards for shut offs. They are customarily 1/4 turn valves that the stop has rusted off of, so you just turn them round and round, usually ending up in a closed or partially closed position.  The piping is interesting

billtwocase

also

you said you have 4 zones, I am only seeing 3 circs. Can you take more pics?

Pharon

More pics

The 4th circ pump is hidden behind the right one. Here's a view of them from the left of the boiler -- the one with the cap missing is the one I was thinking about upsizing, but I'm not sure if there's enough room to do it, probably only have about 1" on either side:







And here are the three 1/2" tees that feed the 1st and 2nd floor baseboard -- not sure how, exactly, but it's definitely them:







The sludge theory is interesting -- is that something I can do on my own or should I call a professional for that? What does it involve?



Short of re-piping the whole system, I'm at a loss what to do here. Would pipe insulation on the supply lines help?

rm72

monoflo-tee

from the picture it looks like those are not monoflo tees. monoflo-tees would probably work well

furnacefigher15

Take off with rag.

Maybe that baseboard only has one side of the piping attached.



Is there a pipe dangling that use to connect to the take off with the red rag?

icesailor

Mono-Flow Tees:

Those are Taco Mono Flow Tees. Normal 1" X 1" 1/2" tees are round on the shoulders. Moniflows are almost always 6 sides. I say "almost always" because there may be an exception to this rule but I personally don't remember ever seeing a round, cast iron mono-flow tee. Look on the other side of the 6 sided tee to see if there is any casting info. Or an arrow.

I had a customer for years that had a radiator in her bedroom. When I turned the water on in the Spring, it always got hot when I bled it. That was that. Years later when she stayed into December, she complained about the radiator being cold. I checked it out and found that "extra" sets of mono-flow and regular tees were installed, some being plugged. That her radiator was connected to two regular tees. The solution was to get a plug out of a mono-flow tee and connect one side. It worked fine for the first time since it was installed in 1964.

Judging by those interesting adapted 90' ells, it was done by a dubber and anything can be wrong. Like looping a radiator in series with the baseboard after. Making it so that the radiator must get hot before the baseboard gets hot. Making the baseboard only warm.