Am I being unreasonable

adamdivine

My place of work has a one-pipe steam system (Weil Mclane SGO-8) that was installed about 12 years ago.  The same company who installed the system is still servicing it.  The system works... but with lots of water bang and really high fuel bills.  After educating myself about steam heat to work on the boiler at my house, I started to take a look at the system at my office to see if I could make any improvements.  The first thing that I noticed is that one of the steam outlets is capped.  I guess that the old boiler only had one outlet, and the installer didn't feel like messing with the existing header and supply runs.  Also, all of the main vents were not functioning and many of the vents on the radiators were not functioning as well.  The last thing I noticed is that the near boiler return piping is all heavily corroded (not affecting the functionality, but a concern nonetheless).  We contacted the company to come out and provide a price to replace the near system return piping, but wanted them to do the supply side at their expense since it was not installed correctly in the first place.  The owner of the company said that they would not do any of it at their cost since the system was installed so long ago.  My argument is that it should have never been installed that way in the first place and the fact that no one at our office knew any better is not an excuse.  We have given this company a lot of work over the years (they also installed and service our air conditioners and do electrical work for us as well); am I being unreasonable to want them to do this on their dime?  Just looking for thoughts either way.

Rod

12 Years is a long time!

Hi- I think that going back 12 years and expecting a free change in the piping is not really what you could call "reasonable".  You have to keep in mind that approaches to near boiler piping has changed since then and that what you see on this website might be called the "cutting edge" of the state of the art.  For example, dropheaders are  now considered the optimum configuration though almost all the boiler manufacturers still diagram side entry headers and the few that diagram a dropheader show it as "optional". Since your boiler is in the "twilight years" of its life I would at this point just wait till the next boiler replacement before updating your near boiler piping unless of course your near boiler piping is completely impractical.

I would be more concerned that if you are paying this company for regular service on your  steam system, why haven't they checked the main vents and radiator vents for proper function? 

- Rod

Edit: I need to point out that I'm a homeowner and Boiler Pro is an extremely experienced steam professional so if he considers that this company should be still responsible I  would go with that.  In reading over your post I was rather surprised that the company didn't at least offer some sort of a compromise as business wise that would be good practice if you wanted to retain a good customer.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Wrong is wrong......

If the minimums were not met when the boiler was installed, it was wrong 12 years ago, just as it is now.    Length of time has nothing to do with it.  Proper header piping has been known since steam's early days and has not changed.  12 years should not even be middle aged for a a boiler, so a repipe is reasonable if the boiler hasn't been abused and there are not alot of other problems. 

I do agree with Rod with the question of why haven't they said anything about inoperative main vents and radiator vents.  Makes me think they really are not interested in doing the job right period.

Hap_Hazzard

My two cents

First, getting a contractor to do something right when they didn't in the first place is usually a waste of time and energy. Second, something's wrong when you need to tell a contractor how to do his job right. Third, as a customer, if you don't have confidence in the competence of the people you're doing business with, you have every right to take your business elsewhere.



I recently requested a service call from a company I found through Angie's List. When the guy got here, he not only did the service I requested, but he took the time to look over the whole system, asked if I was having any problems, and looked at some of the work I'd done. He was clearly not only an expert steam technician; he loves the stuff. He asked if I was familiar with this site, and when I said I was he told me he had taken one of Dan's training courses. That's the kind of guy I want working on my system, and apparently they aren't that hard to find.



So I wouldn't be thinking about trying to get any free work out of a contractor if I'm about to show him the door. The only real leverage you've got in this situation is telling them what your expectations are if they want to keep your business, but if I were you, I wouldn't see that as an option. I'd look at whatever money I'd spent with them up till now as a sunk cost and find a contractor who can give me the best service going forward.

Steamhead

The SGO-8

requires two 2-1/2" risers to a 4" header. If they only used one riser to an undersized header, they did not install the boiler correctly. Period. The manual with the piping diagram is here:



http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/products/boilers/oil-boilers/sgo/sgo-boiler-manual.pdf.pdf



12 years is a long time, however. You're definitely in a gray area here. But I don't think its unreasonable for them to change the piping, since you are a regular customer. If they refuse, then it's time to find someone else to service your equipment.



Try the Find a Contractor page of this site.

furnacefigher15

Don't reward failure

The piping diagrams are very clear in the installation instructions.



If I were in your position, I would stop using there services altogether. I would be very concerned about what other corners may have been cut in the other services that have been provided.



With only one tapping used, I'm surprised that a section hasn't cracked.

nicholas bonham-carter

statute of limitations?

if you do shoddy work for a client, and the client doesn't notice he has been swindled for 12 years, then will the statute of limitations enable you to get away with your dishonest deed?

i say not, and i am surprised that they are not already working on it at their expense.

just ask them if they are interested in continuing any professional relation ship with you in the future.--nbc

adamdivine

Thanks for the replies

I feel a little better about it now.  After he left, I thought maybe I was being unreasonable.  My initial feeling was that wrong is wrong no matter the time (as boilerpro stated).  I showed him the pertinent pages from the installation manual and he asked me why I thought it had to be changed.  I said because that is what the manufacturer calls for and he didn't care.  I asked him point blank if there was no existing near boiler piping and he had to pipe it in from scratch, would he have done it the same way.  His answer was no.  But in the same breath he said it was perfectly acceptable to pipe it the way he did.  I think there is a full days worth of piping to be done (about half for the corroded return piping and the other half for the supply side).  I would have considered some type of compromise on the pricing, but since he is completely unwilling to fix any of it on his dime, I think we will have to find someone else.  I have someone that I hooked up with from this site that did great work on my house, so it looks like he will be getting a call.  It's just depressing that being a loyal customer for over a decade means nothing to this company.

Big Will

As a contractor

I figure things like this are part of the cost of learning. I had to make some changes to a system I installed when we first opened our doors early last year. I have learned a lot since then mostly from the guys on this site and Dan's books. The job is well out of warranty so I was under no obligation to do anything for free or for a discount. In this case I just charged the customer the cost of the parts. The idea being I want them to call me again and I want them to tell their friends about me when their heat fails. With the economy what it is a minor compromise on the installing contractors part seems to be a small expense if it might have saved him the contract. If he had offered to repipe the header for free if you signed a contract to do the other work would he still have the contract? It is interesting to see how the poor economy has weeded out a lot of poor contractors yet surprising to see poor service continue from some knowing it will ruin their reputation. A good reputation is gold.