problems with west wood oil filters?

freddrow2002

anyone have any issues with westwood brand oil filters?

for the last two years or so id have a westwood replacement filter (either full flow or general) leak once in a while. sometimes i would have a call back a few weeks after a cleaning for a spot of oil under the filter cartridge, from where the gasket was weeping. a few times ive had to go with a different brand filter to stop it from actively leaking. my company owner offered little insight

last month another tech changed a general filter on a cleaning with a westwood general replacement on a full 275 outside tank. days later received a no heat from the same customer same tech went out to find an empty oil tank. upon closer inspection the gasket was found to be pushing out of the canister causing the leak. the gasket appears to have swollen and pushed out. oil company says tank was straight #2 oil.

DEP was called out to supervise the clean up and the company DEP uses for emergence clean ups was used. (not cheap at all, 5pm on friday had to remove a deck and oil tank to allow clean up)

anyway the guys from the clean up company said we are not alone in westwood filter failure or DEP clean up?

Any one else have or having any problems with westwood filter gaskets?

we've switched to sid harvey filters and have had no issues since.

STEVEusaPA

Interesting.....

I can't say anything about Westwood, but are you sure it was installed correctly in the first place, or maybe someone kicked/bumped it? We all know it's pretty easy, especially if you're in a tight spot, to not seat the gasket perfectly.

I have seen more minor leak issues and wonder if it's fuel related. I did noticed a recent add for filter canisters with 'bio rated' gaskets, even though they claim their 'regular' gaskets are rated up to b20.

freddrow2002

i cant say

as for the gasket failure and the empty tank i really cant say. i didnt change the filter nor did i personally see the aftermath. as for the weepy filters ive had. no there was absolutely no mistake made installing them. years back id once in a while change a filter and it would leak or weep. take it apart wipe the gasket turn the cartridge and put it back together. never get a call back. but in these last months the westwoods i could not do that with if they leaked they leaked. also the westwood gaskets seem to swell a lot once come into contact with any oil

icesailor

Filter Gaskets:

Sounds like their Chinese supplier of gaskets used the wrong material in the gaskets.

If you read the instruction/install manuals for boilers that use rubber O-rings as section seals and you have noticed that they tell you to NEVER use any petroleum based liguids in the boiler, that it will void the warranty, because the material will react with petroleum, you're seeing it.

If you are a plumber and have ever done a repair on a Delta 400 single lever faucet and greased everything up with "Plumber's Grease" and wondered why in a few weeks the customer was complaining that it takes two hands to move the spout, that's why. The O-rings will swell to twice their diameter

I use SuperLube synthetic NSF grease.

billtwocase

I use

Sids filter elements, and have had no problem. When the filter is replaced, are you wiping both surfaces, and tightening the filter pot just tight enough, and using the bleeder to refill it? Also all gaskets should be used. They should come with top nut, pot, and bleeder screw gaskets. I usually find the previous company has thrown the new gaskets under the tank, and used the old ones. No wonder we are losing it in the basements.

icesailor

Filters:

The REAL problem is the POS canister type filter that is prone to leak, no matter what. The "pot" will rust through in time. They haven't used canister filters on any vehicle in years, all spin-ons. Spin on types will never rust out because they will plug up before any rusting out takes place. If you wipe the underside of the filter plate (like I found one Friday that hadn't been on a boiler that had never been combustion tested) change the O-ring and wipe synthetic grease on the O-ring and gasket pre-installed on the gasket, it will not leak.

And that old thing about "I like to see what is inside" is the fourth great lie. If it's more than two years old, it should have been changed sooner. If you look down the middle, and it isn't shiny in the bottom. it's REALLY dirty. If not, it's just dirty.

Those canister filters don't even make good "sludge pots". You like sticking your hand inside that canister to wipe out all the sludge after you have pried the element out with a large screw driver when it is stuck inside from the sludge? Not this old fart. I install/replace two. One at the tank, and one at the burner with a restriction gauge. When I change them, the one at the tank is heavier than the one at the burner. That's more than enough for me. And I don't get sludge all over my gloves.

JMO

billtwocase

Sorry Ice

but I am one of those guys that likes to see what is going on inside the filter pot, especially after these few days where the outside tanks are starting to show there true colors. I like to know if the problem is ice or gel, and Garbers get way over tightened, and suck to get off at that point. I have only had a couple B-4 pots that weeped in over 30 years. If that thick steel can fail, then the thin skinned spin on certainly will too. The water and crap settles on the bottom of that filter as it does any other. I am a fan of General filters. Along with pump strainers, and the strainer on the nozzle, that is enough filtration in my eyes. Other preachers advise about 1/2 a dozen filters be installed. With that added cost of annual maintenance, we are sure to lose it in the basement. What makes it thru will burn

icesailor

Crud:

When I take out a Gerber, and pour it out into a container:

Sometimes, I see the water in the the flow.

Sometimes, I see hard sludge in the outside holes.

Sometimes, when looking down the center, I see sludge on the sides of the filter element through the center.

I see water in the first filter, on occasion.

The first filter is always heavier and sludgier than the second.

The pump strainer is always like new.

The nozzle strainer is NEVER clogged, mo matter how plugged up the two filters are.

Like a plug or a cap, you don't need to use a 2' pipe wrench on it. You can always tighten it more.

I really HATE sticking my hand inside those cannisters and wiping all the sludge out of them. I'm a wuss. I take all my Gerbers to a trucker who has a waste oil heater and put them with all his lube and hydro oil.

#1 Reason I use Spin-On's: I put my name and date of change on every filter. There is never a question, plus or minus when it was last changed. I put my name and date on most everything I do. Just like the trucker.

If you enjoy sticking your hand in that smeg, knock yourself out. Spin on filters are the choice in the entire lube and fuel industry.

I used to use Mitco elements in F4B's and a week after a cleaning, when I had a dirty old tank, the nozzle strainer was plugged and the inside of the element was dark grey. The sludge was getting through. Since I switched to 2 Garber Spin-ons, it hasn't happened ONCE.

Commercial offshore fishing boats use Racor filter systems They have multiple filter racks so they can change filters without disturbing the other rack. They change filters before rough weather because sludge and crap from 20 year old fuel tanks, with the fuel sloshing around the tanks, stir up all the schmeg. If the engine quits in 60' seas and 90 MPH winds, it's bend over and KYA good bye. You'll never see a yarn wrapped cannister type fuel filter on any modern marine vessel.

Using those antique filters is the same as treating your customers like the stuff in the tanks. Crap.

It's no wonder that oil has such a bad reputation.

Give me your address, I'll give you all my old Mitco elements. I hate to throw things away. I'd rather give them away.    

ChasMan

lol..

When I was researching filters, I came accross the Raycor line. They have a 5 micron with a water seperator that interested me however I wasn;t able to see if it would have too high of a pressure driop so I just stuck with the Garber. Have you tried a Racor?  The mounting brackets are nice too.

billtwocase

filters

no offense Ice, but a boat/ship that is sloshing around in the water is like comparing apples to oranges. i don't remove existing Garber filters in the field, but new installed filters are genuine General for me. My strainers are always near spotless with general felt type elements. They work.

meplumber

I agree with bill and SLO on this one.

I use Generals only at the tank. With the General Felt Cartridges.



If I am swapping out an over sized boiler with a new triple pass and having to leave the oil tank, I will throw on a Garber.



If the budget allows, I will use a TigerLoop Ultra instead of a Garber. Man I like those.



I stay away from "Aftermarket" parts. Or Wholesaler branded parts. There is a reason they are so cheap. These types of parts caused a huge headache in the A/C world in the late 90's down south when a high volume wholesaler came out with their brand of consumable parts. They were cheap so all the purchasers were gobbling them up.



Call backs went through the roof and we went back to "Real Parts".



Good Luck.

icesailor

Filters and Gauges:

A wool sock would also do.

Way back when, I was always hearing suggestions to check the vacuum. Doing pumps and wells, I know how difficult it is to add a vacuum gauge to a system that doesn't have one. And I want IMMEDIATE results when I am troubleshooting.

For all the Canister filters that gave me fits, and they were resolved with a filter that has a vacuum gauge installed at all times. my problems went away.

I'm probably the oldest fart here. I realized years ago that nozzles under .85 GPH were failing far too soon. That changing nozzle strainers on a two week old nozzle would return the nozzle to like new. The problem went away with Spin-On's. In 10 years of using dual spin-ons, I have had not one plugged nozzle strainer or a second filter being clogged.

The oil industry has a big enough problem competing with gas. You all using sub-standard filtration are helping to push the industry over the cliff.

If you think that canister type filters are so great, join the crowd of folks taking their vehicles back to the dealers to have the spin'ons removed and replaced with canisters

You won't find me there.

Prfomoting and installing state of the art heating technology with 100+ old filtration technology. Another good idea.

billtwocase

noone

is bashing spin on filters, just don't have an issue with filtration here. We buy pretreated #2 only. Plus oil as it is called. Our tanks are monitored, our trucks are monitored, and the end result is a better quality product. It's not the type or brand of filter that is causing us to "lose it in the basement", it's cost. I have never had a customer who was switching to gas tell me that it was because of the quality of service or oil. It is unfortunately due to prices that are out of control, and I don't want to see customers choosing between eating or heating. I will do whatever I can to get them help with oil or equipment if they are that destitute, but unfortunately if you are middle class, you are on your own in this country. Oil heat cares is not just a meaningless phrase. Many will soon find that out

icesailor

Quality:

Right you are.

And with proper filtration, I go three years on my filters and accessories. I feel guilty changing things every year when I know that everything is still working properly.

Did it go by you that the USA has become a net exporter of oil? And that the oil in that Keystone pipeline will pass over the ogalala aquifier on its way to Texas Gulf ports to refineries in Texas or the Caribbean for exports to the highest bidder? That most oil from the North Slope of Alaska that is pumped to Valdez goes to Asia?

Its foreign "persons" (Corporations are people until Texas executes a Corporation) getting to have rebates from our slanted tax codes for higher profits.

This whole string started with Westwood Products. They sell nice stuff, mostly. They rep. Tigerloops. I use them often. The first Tigerloop Ultra came with a Westwood Spin-On filter. I didn't want to use it because it would be two brands of filters. I like continuity. I used it anyway. It leaked like a sieve. I changed it to a Garber and threw away the Westwood. It was probably a low bid filter. Not me.

billtwocase

not a big fan of Westwood

either. Fulflo filters are no good, no matter what element you put in there, micr-flo, or anything else. You have been around a long time, and probably remember genuine Purolator filters. Long before spin ons, they were the cat's meow. Even Fireomatic filters are better than B-4's. I buy spin ons, and Generals buy the cases. That is all that I will use. A vacuum gauge is a big help. I think a lot of problems that show up on this board, and others, are not always a fuel related problem. It is always the first, or should be the first possibility to be eliminated. Some guys are going back 4 or more times, and not replacing lousy 3 wire cad cell relays, testing transformers, checking amp draw on motors, doing pump gear/pressure tests, and so on. I only use Crown electrodes. They give no ignition problems. I have had many defective 5780 kits. I have gone back to old transformers. I'll do anything to eliminate the possibility of a call back. I run a tight ship. I will only use quality parts, and stand behind the part and workmanship. I don't want to lose it in the basement due to that

meplumber

A side note

At the risk of hijacking the OP's thread, Bill touches on a good point.



I was at a seminar recently with a large group of industry guys. One of them, a general manager for a very large oil company, had data that they had just received from a consulting firm that they had hired.



The data showed the total "Real Costs" of callbacks. It was staggering. I have been a part of many attempts to limit callbacks over the years. All failed because in my opinion, they were looking for a single answer.



Callbacks are caused by a variety of reasons. Inferior replacement parts, under-trained technicians, over zealous Service Managers pushing technicians to hurry and get to the next call, etc..... When we try and blame a single reason, we limit our scope of vision to that reason.



Callbacks can be reduced by a total change of attitude in the company. I once worked for an older gentleman that knew how to run a company. His techs were happy, well trained, well equipped and well stocked. Our callback ratio was virtually non-existent.



That was over 25 yrs ago. Things changed and not for the better in my opinion.



Sorry for the rant and the hijack.

icesailor

Call backs:

Good on you Bill.

I feel as I do because I had so many call backs over the years, I found my #1 call back reason was sooting up and its related cousins. I'm a one man band. Switching to Spin-Ons solved my clogging problems. If I had a situation where there was an old tank, and it had crud, the addition of two spin on's solved my problems where I had no call backs for "bad nozzles" that weren't bad. The smaller the nozzle, the greater the chance of a problem.

You sound like you run a tight ship. Employees being employees, how do you know that they change the filters in a canister? You don't. I write my name and date of change on every filter I change. There is absolutely no question that it was changed. And who changed it. Dirty oil gets by a filter? It ends up in the nozzle strainer. I had so many nozzles plug up partially. Enough to throw the adjustments off. I figured it out when I didn't have the correct replacement nozzle with me. The nozzle was a month or less old and it was basically new. I swapped strainers from another new nozzle and it then fired fine. Before the strainer swap, the oil would barely run out of the tube. With a new strainer, after running it, I would pull it back out. The oil ran out like new. Hence, the strainer was clogging.

There is no way to measure the nozzle pressure after the strainer. The nozzle strainer is the weakest link in the fuel burning chain. You service a lot more customers than I do. I only service my plumbing and heating customers. If someone calls me to do it and they are not P&H customers and have another company that doesn't do what I do, I tell them to get the oil company to do it. Where I work, all the oil comes by barge or coastal tanker. Its whatever crap they put in the tanks and deliver to the tank farm.

With vacuum gauges on the filters, it becomes another tool for the techs. They will run the burner and check the vacuum before servicing. If the needle is in the yellow, or even in the high green, they will see when done that the filter was obstructive when they are done. I'm proud to put my name on it.

But whatever.