Help identifying steam vents

VR

Could someone please help me determine what would be the best Gorton replacement for these two steam vents in the baseboard  (see pic1 of kitchen and pic2 of sunroom - the vent in the sunroom is marked as Vent-Rite No. 77, so I hope that helps identify diameter size)?  I read many positive comments about Gorton vents, but am not sure which model would fit the pipe and also which model would fit under the baseboard cover.  I have a single-pipe steam heating system and these two vents are located on base-board units in our kitchen and in the sunroom.

In addition, I need some help in confirming what model to replace my main vents with.  Would you recommend the Gorton No. 1 as a replacement for the Hoffman 4A (See pic3 and pic 4 of my main vents in the basement).  My basement ceiling is too close to the piping, so I do not believe a No. 2 would fit. 

I read many positive comments about Gorton vents on your site, so I am considering replacing many of my steam radiator vents with this brand.

Thanks.

nicholas bonham-carter

old vents

i would concentrate on the main vents to begin with and not follow the  recommendations from the gorton website as to radiator vents.

i advise the replacement of main vents with the maximum capacity which will fit. perhaps you could reduce the height of the nipple in the picture a bit, and therefore have more available height. if the ceiling is open joists, then perhaps adding a bit of horizontal piping will put the vent in a roomier place.

once the main venting has been made adequate, then you can see which of the radiators are slow to start. the radiator vents only allow the radiator/riser air to escape and so they can be seemingly slow to allow the mains to fill first before any steam enters the risers. the desired end result will be the simultaneous arrival of steam into all the radiators.--nbc

Abracadabra

vent rads slow

"not follow the recommendations from the gorton website as to radiator vents."







+1 for this.

crash2009

Need more info

How many feet long are your mains?  What size is the pipe? Circumference is OK.

Hap_Hazzard

Vent specs

The Vent-Rite 77 has a 0.125" port, so it's about the same size as a Gorton C, Hoffman 45 or Dole 5.



That stubby-looking thing in the sunroom is a Hoffman Model 4 "Quick Valve." It's very similar to a Dole 4. The venting capacity is comparable to a Gorton 1, but unlike the Gorton 1, the Hoffman 4 and Dole 4 are floatless, thermostatic-only vents, usually used on mains, but they're typically mounted on a 6-10" nipple because they won't close against water.



I think the Hoffman 4A is just a float-type version of the 4, but I've seen them cross-referenced to a Gorton 2 as well as a Gorton 1, so I'm not clear on that.



I don't see any reason to replace these if they're working. If the Hoffman 4 is spitting water you might replace it with a float-type vent of the same size (assuming that much venting capacity is needed there), but otherwise, keep it. It's a good, reliable vent. Some people might disagree about who makes the best vents, but Hoffman is better than the junk you find at the home stores.

BobC

Probably need bigger vents on the mains

My information is the Hoffman 4A is rated at 0.133CFM at 1oz ( VentRite #35 is 0.110CFM) so it has about 40% the venting capacity of the Gorton #1 (0.330CFM). I don't know if those figures are exact but I do know the Gorton #1 vents a lot faster for less money.



As others have said get us the steam mains length and diameter, or pipe circumference, and we can determine which vents you need on each main.



Bob

VR

Update on vents

Thank you for all your helpful comments.  Based on your comments, here is an update:



In the basement, I have two lengths of main pipes.  The circumference is approx 8 inches, so does that mean I have 2.5 inch diameter?  One main is 50 feet long and feeds 8 radiators.  The other main is 35 feet long and feeds 3 radiators.



On Monday, I had decided to replace 9 steam vents on my radiators with Hoffman 1As.  These are the same vents that I originally had found when I bought the home.  I opted against using the Gorton vents for my radiators, as several people commented not to follow Gorton's instructions.  I don't want to purchase them if their instructions do not work.  Last week, I had problems with several vents failing and letting steam out.  After the replacements, the Hoffman's worked great in venting the air out and shutting off when needed. 



However, my pressure was so great with the new vents and I found our boiler was hitting 10psi and several of the radiator vents were spitting out steam. A prior visit from a plumber probably had him increase the pressure to max out.  So, I had to get a plumber come visit on Tuesday.  They replaced the pressure control unit (?)and lowered the (cut-off?) pressure.  Also, they replaced the two old Hoffman 4A main vents with Ventrite No 75's.  This was a misunderstanding, as I had asked his boss to install Hoffman 4As but the message may not have gotten through.



The improvements have helped quiet things and heat more evenly, but now I need some advice. 

1) Based on the size of my mains, do you recommend Hoffman Quick Vent 4A or Ventrite No 75?  What is the diff between the two?

2)  Also, I noticed that the boiler cuts out when the two pressure guages on my boiler show 2.5psi-3.5psi.  Is that the right pressure to use?  The baseboard vent in my kitchen is still hissing (less than before).

3) Lastly, I had adjusted the openings of my Hoffman 1A steam vents according to two factors: radiator size and whether or not they sat on a riser.  Is this right?  I have seen several comments saying to adjust based only on radiator size, but I was thinking that all that air from the riser also has to escape via the radiator vent.



Thanks in advance.

Abracadabra

vents

8" circumference is a 2.5" outside diameter pipe.  Pipe is measured inside diameter.  So you have a 2" pipe.  







Reduce your pressure to about under 1psi.  2.5-3psi is too high. You'll need a vaporstat. 

The 2 main vents you noted are both about the same venting rate.  I prefer the Gortons for mains since they vent so much faster.

Since you only have about 11 radiators, you should be able to adjust the vents easily by seeing that they all heat evenly all the way across. 

Steamhead

I'd use

a Gorton #2 on the longer main and two Gorton #1 on the shorter one. This should balance the mains properly. 

VR

Vaporstat

Update: Thanks a lot for all your help!  I have replaced all our radiator vents, and had a plumber install new main vents and baseboard vents (with Ventrite 75s).  The plumber also installed a new pressuretrol and kept it at lowest setting.  Things are working well during the day when temp is kept steady at 68F. 

However, in the morning, when our single-pipe-steam system has to heat the house up from 62F to 68F, the pressure still builds up in the system and although the pressuretrol is set at lowest setting (0.5+1.0 diff=1.5psi cutoff), the system does not really cut off until 3psi.  Several of the vents end up hissing a lot as they let out some of the high pressure.



Given this, I am considering adding a Vaporstat, as was suggested:

1) There are several types of Vaporstats - do you recommend the L408J1009 which is shows controls up to 16oz/in2?  OR do you recommend the 1017 model which shows controls up to 4psi (i think?)?



2) For the night time, to temporarily avoid noise in the early morning - do you recommend keeping night time temperature higher at 65F or even keep it flat at 68F for now? 



3)  Once I get the vaporstat installed-what night time temperature is best?  Do we save money on a steam system by lowering the temp or keeping it steady?

nicholas bonham-carter

night time setback

the current theory is that a setback overnight does not save fuel. if you are away foe several days then, a setback may save some fuel.

i would suggest the 0-16 ounce vaporstat, with a 0-15 ounce gauge.--nbc

VR

Relatively quiet night

Last night, I kept the house at a temperature of 68F.  Without the temperature setback, the system was relatively quiet, with no hissing.  I guess that the system came on for brief periods to maintain the temp, but had no need for a long burn to heat the house from a cold start.  Thanks!



I have two questions about the main vents-how fast does a typical steam boiler generate steam (cfm) and how much time (minutes) should it take for the mains to fill with steam? 



I was lucky enough to catch the sytem come on from a cold start.  After a few minutes, the beginning of the main got warm, then it took another 6 minutes for the end of the main to get hot.  The radiators were still cool, so I assume that the main vent was working properly.  Is 6 minutes for a main that is 50 feet long good or bad?  The shorter main got hot much quicker, but I did not clock it.



Many people are suggesting Gorton 1 or 2 for my mains, but I ended up bringing in a plumber and he installed Ventrite 75s to replace the old Hoffman 4As.  Someone replied to me that the venting rate of 75s and 4As are similar, but that Gorton's are faster venting.  



Is it worthwhile for me to replace the 75s wtih Gorton's, as they are already installed?  How do I think through the cost benefit? 

Steamhead

Yes!

Vent-Rite's main vents are too small for your system, though their #1 radiator vents are nice. You WILL get faster and more even steam distribution with a Gorton #2 on the long main and a #1 on the short one.



I agree Gorton needs to update their vent selection guide, but that's no reason not to use their vents.

VR

boiler flooding - did I vent radiators too slowly???

Thank you for all your help with my steam system. I read through many posts and bought the book We've got steam and it was a lot of help. I ended up adding new mains, new vents (hoffman 1a), vaporstat, as well as insulating many of our pipes which helped a lot. Plus, I balanced the radiators, setting the hoffmans at either 3 or 4 based on the Balancing Steam Vents book. I did all these improvements at the end of last winter, and was pleased that the radiators were filling evenly and the vents were clinking shut, then the cycle ends.



This winter it was operating well. However, we recently had a cold night with 10 degress F outside. The boiler was firing for a longer time and the radiators were starting to build high pressure and release steam up in our bedrooms again. I decided to slow down the venting even more to settings 1 and 2. This helped quiet things down a lot more and I was really pleased that the radiators seem to be filling fully, but the vents would not clink until the very end. It was even quieter than before!



There is one problem though - the boiler seems to be building up water. Over the last days, the water in the guage glass keeps on rising till the boiler floods. I have drained water from the boiler, as well as the mudlegs, but the water keeps on rising. Plus, this one problem radiator that I have used to pant air at setting 3/4, now it is gurgling at settings 1 and 2.



Based on my calculations (amateur), the radators were filling at 10 minutes whereas now they are calculated to fill in 30 minutes or even more (Because settings 1 and 2 are so slow). Dan's book has said that the radiators should only fill on the coldest day. And I have also read here on this wall to vent mains fast and vent radiators slowly but fully...



Is it possible that I slowed the vents down too much, so too much steam gets into the system now and when the consdensate returns, it floods the boiler? Any thoughts?

BobC

several causes

The venting rates have nothing to do with boiler flooding, they are not related.



If your boiler is flooding there are several possible causes -



The boiler fill valve (manual or automatic) could be leaking by the valve. If it's a manual fill make sure the valve is off tight. In any case feel the pipe after the fill valve, if it is cold at this time of year water is flowing, find out why and fix it.



If the boiler seems to be ok and then seems to be overfilled you may have a partially clogged return on the boiler that slows the return of condensed steam, when the auto feeder senses low water it adds water and when the condensed steam finds it's way back that overfills the boiler. This tends to be worse in cold weather because the boiler runs longer.



If you heat your domestic hot water with this boiler, the hot water coil could have a pinhole leak that is adding water to the boiler.



Bob