ID this radiator?

cgw

(assuming I can attached the picture) Can anyone ID this radiator? I am looking for capacity information. It is 40" high and 1/4 round (fits in the corner) 26" diameter.

The vertical tubes look like they are through the entire radiator (not just around the front).

Steamhead

Might be a Bundy

go here:



http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/1275/92.pdf



Does it have a name on it?

nicholas bonham-carter

corner radiator

that's a wonderful radiator, but as it is part of a 2-pipe system, should there really be an air vent on it?--nbc

MikeyB

Radiator

I agree w/Steamhead, looks like it might be a Bundy, is this a 2-pipe air vent system? is the valve on the right an 1 1/2" valve and the one under the air vent a 1 1/4" valve? This info i found in the Resources section, in the Library under Radiators, looks like they have the same detail and the marking would be on the back of the Rafdiator

Long Beach Ed

Two pipe vented

Two pipe vented radiators were used before traps were invented.  These radiators date back to Civil War years.  I have a round Griffing one like it in my house. 



You pipe it like a single pipe radiator using a supply and return the size of the tapping.  The return goes either to a wet return or an inverted syphon (a u-tube to trap water) connected to the bottom of the main.



You can use a fairly quick vent on these as the condensate is handled by a separate return.

cgw

Convert to hot water?

Thanks.

The building was built in approx. 1907.

What do you think about converting the radiators to hot water? What are the chaces they would handle the pressure?

Dave in QCA

NO!

This readiator absolutly will not work on hot water.  There is no common connection accross the top of the radiator and thus there is not way to blead the air out.



If you are considering converting a steam system to hot water... there are a thousand reasons why you should not do it. 



If you want to know why, your should post the question, "should I convert my steam system to hot water?"

Long Beach Ed

No Hot Water

As the tubes aren't joined together at the top of these Bundy or Griffing radiators, they can't be used for hot water.  There would be no circulation through the columns.



Unless of course it was made for hot water.  They did make them that way on order.  Take the top off and see if the columns are connected together.  I'll bet they're not.



Why would you ever want to convert to hot water anyway? 

cgw

Good point and good question.

Why would we convert to hot water? Good question.

How long can we expect the radiators to last? Is there a way to know if there will be an imminent failure?

On the plus side: They are in a church and they have a aethetic appeal.  The church probably has landmark status.

But: The rest of the building has been converted to hot water.

But: The building is on district steam so we have steam not matter what.

But: If it ever goes off district steam, water boilers would be the only option.

Long Beach Ed

Answers

Everything, from the day it is made is waiting to break.   Only God knows when it finally will.  Those radiators may perhaps outlive both of us as well as this entire so-called human race.



If you don't understand a steam system, find someone who does.



Converting those radiators to hot water will not work.

Dave in QCA

2 boilers

If you ever go off of district steam, and there probably pros and cons for doing that, the best solution would be to install one boiler for the hot water systems and another for the steam system.



The cost for boilers would probably not be any more than one large boiler, and you would certainly save a ton of money by not having to install a completely new system where you presently have steam.  Plus, you would certainly have zoning ability because the steam system could be controlled separately from the water system(s).  Of course, water systems are usually easy to zone, but you already have it with the separate steam system.



Set backs.....   While most of discourage the use of night set backs on steam systems in residences and apartments, in a building that is only occupied a short while each week, setback certainly make sense.  The advantage of steam systems compared to cast iron hot water radiant systems, is that there are much fast to respond, the radiators heat up faster and are generally capable of raising the space temperature faster.



Additionally, if forces that make decisions for the church do opt at some point to no longer use the steam system for heat, the old radiators should be left in place.  Those radiators are phenomenal and their design is an important part of the character of the building.  They are amazing!



Peace and best wishes,

ChrisJ

Hot water

Even though I'm 100% for steam systems I have to ask.



Everyone has responded saying the Bundy will not work for hot water.  Why does the picture posted of it say "for steam and hot water" ?



I'm going to guess that they made ones custom for hot water which is not the one pictured?

Dave in QCA

It says that?

Yes, you're right, it does say steam and hot water.  They must have had the option, but if you go to Bundy Radiators in the Library section and download the catalog and look at it, you will see how the vertical tubes are configured without the decorative cover on top.  They are not all joined together with a manifold like they are at the bottom.  For water, there must have been a special configuraiton where there was both a top and a bottom manifold, with the tubes joined to the manifolds at both ends, top and bottom.  This is the only way that it could possibly work on a water system.



The photo of the sample radiator does not look like there is a manifold at the top, only a cover plate.  If there is a top manifold section, then all the comments are wrong, and it will in fact work on hot water.   But, I really think that all of the experienced eyes got it right.

Long Beach Ed

Hot Water Radiators

I'll second Dave's assessment.  It is possible, however that the tubes are large enough to circulate water through convection without being joined at the top.  We're all assuming that a top manifold was available for water radiators, but perhaps they did use the same radiator for both. 



Remember that back then, all hot water systems circulated by gravity, making the circulation very slow.  This may have worked with the steam type configuration.  Has anyone out there seen a Bundy connected to hot water?



I wouldn't want to pipe the thing for forced hot water and find out it doesn't work, however. 



What do you think, Dave? 

Steamhead

It would NEVER have worked on hot-water

unless the tubes were manifolded at the top.



Otherwise there would be no way to get the air out of them.



Don't even think about converting this system. And why do you say a water boiler is the only option if it ever goes off district steam?

cgw

Steam vs water

The building is not going off district steam any time soon.

There is a heat exchanger already (for the rest of the building but bidg enough for the added load).

I need to come up with a hot water system (something that looks good) for pricing but may suggest that they consider holding off.

I am more concerned about the piping than the radiators. There are balconys that are heated by 2-1/2" pipe radiators. The supports are coming of the wall (easy enough to fix).