A question for everyone

DanHolohan

What do you think of online seminars? A company wants to work with me to put seminars on HeatingHelp.com. Would you pay to watch? Would this be a better or worse format than attending a live seminar?



Thanks for helping us decide.

CMadatMe

Seminars

I don't know about paying Dan. I can get alot of archieved seminars via Coffee with Caleffi, Taco FloPro, Honeywell and other manufactures. If your talking, sales, business management then you may be on to something. Would definetly have to archieve them as I find myself watching them at the kitchen table with a coffee or in the quitest place in the house. Can't always get to them during the live sessions.

MikeyB

Seminars

I think it would be a great idea, I would definitely pay,  I cant always get a day or 2 off to attend the seminars I want to go to every year. So for me this would work out great, can you tell us more about what you have in mind Dan? how long are the Seminars, would they be live?

DanHolohan

Not live.

Archived and technical. The material would be similar to what I do in my live seminars, but broken into segments. How long for each segment? I'd love to get suggestions on that. Thanks. 

DanHolohan

Thanks, Chris.

There is a lot of good free training available, and that's why I'm asking. People pay to come to my live seminars and I'm trying to find out if they would pay to watch similar presentations here on the site. You're voting no and I appreciate that.  

CMadatMe

I Would

I would pay if you were doing them and dependent on the subject. You bring more creditability to the subject matter. I don't think I would feel the same paying to hear someone I was unfamilar with. Take a page out of Johnny B's book, his videos break the subject matter into 10-15 minute segments.

DanHolohan

Thanks.

That helps. 

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Webinars

I recently learned how to use LoopCAD using their archived webinars (about an hour each) and tutorials.  The tutorials are on specific topics and are usually just a few minutes long. It was an excellent way to learn the program.



For your seminars, I would say you could cover a lot in an hour without people getting distracted.

Long Beach Ed

Sure

Dan, people are CHEAP.   Enough folks will pay 50 cents less for "economy bologna", and consume who-know-what that every grocery store sells it.



But those who value education will pay for a video. 



Most of those guys who pay out of their pockets to attend your seminars would pay for Internet instruction if they lived in an area where couldn't attend personally.  You'd be the best judge of those numbers. 



Pricing is important.  Without the social interaction and the food and the excuse to go out and drink afterward, it would have to be very affordable.  Cheap.



I wouldn't invest a fortune, but I'm sure you'd get some takers. 



Beware of the bologna, Dan. 

DanHolohan

Thanks, Ed.

Help me out with a price. What would be a good number for, say, a one-hour seminar. Let's see if others agree. Thanks. 

DanHolohan

That's about the length I had in mind at first.

Thanks. 

Long Beach Ed

In New York Dollars

...  I'd pay $25 -$40.  About the price of a book.  But that's based on a guy who spends money on business stuff -- on education that will make money for me. . 



A homeowner would probably have a different value. 



A homeowner whose only interest is in his own single system or steam buff stuff would probably look at a lower price point, perhaps $15 to $25 ? 



Interesting thread, Dan.

DanHolohan

Valuable input, Ed.

Good reasoning. Thanks!

ChrisJ

As a homeowner

I would be willing to spend $25-40 for it.  This is assuming I could save a copy to watch again and again.  A one time deal would have to be much cheaper.



The other benefit to me would be I would be able to watch these and learn from them.  My understanding is homeowners such as my self are not allowed to attend the seminars?

CMadatMe

Subscription

You should sell subscriptions and individual pricing. Those of us that are here daily should get a little break .  I wouldn't pay 40 bucks not even 20 bucks for an individual seminar via the net but I would pay for a subscription that might get me discounted books, webinars, and something that an individual just stopping by wouldn't get.

DanHolohan

Thanks.

We always have several homeowners at my seminars. I enjoy meeting them, and they often make a connection with a good, local professional, who is also at the seminar.  

DanHolohan

Membership has its privledges.

I get it. Thanks, Chris. 

MikeyB

Seminars

Siggy has a few from PM Engineer, that i believe i paid 50 dollars for, well worth it, i believe they are about an hour or so long, they were live and then saved for purchase and i can view them over and over, good stuff

alotlikeearl

Rules?

At the risk of breaking rule #1 (be nice), I have to ask; aren't we breaking rule #2 (don't discuss price)?  That said I would think $25.00 for an hour seminar sounds reasonable.  I would hope there would be a way for those who pay to accessit later in an archive.

Merry Christmas!     Jerry

DanHolohan

Merry Christmas, Jerry.

Thanks for the smile! 

STEVEusaPA

I'd pay for some online training....

as long I paying for some true knowledge, and not a sales pitch from a manufacturer's rep.  Rep's should be more then happy, and willing to promote their new product (say a boiler), with a little sales/service demo, for free. Something I can show to a customer, or provide a link through email. They used to (some still do) have you come to the supply house, show ya some new stuff, give you some literature, some swag, have lunch, etc.  Not so much anymore.  Heck at the Atlantic City Exhib in the spring, most companies dumped their products into supply house booths, no free swag.  Had to almost beg for an OEM spec book from Beckett (they had them hidden).

But for other seminars, instructional wiring, troubleshooting, replacing a burner, boiler or furnace, sizing pumps, all the...."hey, how do you guys normally......, I think it's a great idea, and well worth it.  Maybe a free 30 sec demo of the highlights, and if you like what you see, you can purchase.  Or if it's put together well, buy/download a whole series, to watch at anytime.

I'd really love to see a thread, or even video of something like this:

"The best way to.......", have some people put up their own videos, utube style, and we'll vote, the winner, or winners get to keep theirs up.  It can be anything from troubleshooting a no heat call, to skimming/cleaning (better be time-lapsed, of course) a steam boiler.

As far as Dan's seminars, my experience was you have to see him live.  Otherwise how are you going to find out your the best group ever, and the group from the day before were..........lol.  It's obvious you enjoy teaching to a live crowd, and the questions & answers. Although I'm sure you will do a fantastic job with just a camera on you.

DanHolohan

Any other thoughts?

Love to hear your opinion. Thanks.

Steve Whitbeck

on line webanar

Dependant on the subject and teacher. Would they be live or downloadable?

mtfallsmikey

Yes!

I say go for it. You do not come around the D.C. area to do seminars that often!

mtfallsmikey

Yes!

I say go for it. You do not come around the D.C. area to do seminars that often!

gerry gill

I would pay for online classes,

as a matter of fact i already have done online training regarding business training that i paid for..it was roughly 14 modules and wasn't cheap, but i learned alot and felt i got my moneys worth..i think online education is the wave of the future..

jim_51

cost savings

Hi Dan

I am not in your industry but i view this page and the folks on here have helped me in the past. I am in the telecommunications industry. Not trying to sell you anything. Customers are using online training all the time on a global basis. To pay xx$ is nothing. The cost that you save in time and travel and meals etc is huge. You can do audio or live video along with powerpoint presentations to hundreds of participants. Contractors with several employees could set up training for the employees and call it lunch and learn. It take a couple of hours out of the day but builds teamwork, morale and most important keeps improving the skills of the employees. And again a huge cost savings of not having to pay travel and expenses.

Jim

Long Beach Ed

Dan

...send them a slice of New York pizza or a bagel with every order.  - Ed

geothermal

on line training

Another advantage is the limiting of deductibility for tax expense for travel and entertainment expenses not directly chargeable to a specific job. I think that people should be willing to pay for specific downloads with a discount for pros and possibly qualification for continuing education requirements. It was great to see you at TACO ! Merry Christmas.

joe_61

seminar

I thing that would be great.....joe from JET

JohnHenry_2

Some thoughts in no particular order:

There are lots of places you could go here.



This is an area where I have some expertise. In one of my former lives, I was the chief geek at a company that did online training for airplane mechanics. It was an interesting venture.



As you wind down the road of eLearning, trying to make your coursework SCORM compliant could help you, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharable_Content_Object_Reference_Model.





Dan, I suspect you really do have a diverse readership here, from homeowners with no intention of ever touching their heating system themselves, homeowners with just enough ability to blow themselves up, homeowners who can actually do a good job themselves, non or poorly trained installers and finally, well trained and competent installers.



Each of these groups probably needs to have different training/information.



This website does very, very well with the search engines for heating related queries and I suspect there are a lot of homeowners looking for basic information related to replacing or servicing their heating systems that end up here.



A typical homeowner might like to see some very basic information on what is what in the boiler/furnace room, sort of a "this is where your heat comes from 101".



I'd venture to guess something on how to choose a heating contractor would be very valuable to any of the homeowner groups.



Online training can be very cost effective and reach many times the people that can be reached via live training. As was stated above, the major portion of training expense is often the travel.



One thing to consider on pricing is the effect it will have on usage, especially by the afore mentioned non or poorly trained installers. They're not trained or poorly trained for many reasons, not the least of which is cost in both coursework, travel expenses and lost work time. If you make it "cheap" enough, will more come?



Are there any continuing education requirements for heating contractors? If not, are they far off?



If you have any questions on the nuts and bolts of distance learning, please feel free to ask me. My experience runs from putting the content together to writing learning management software to sending the bits and bytes over the wire...

Jason Quinn

Yes, definitely!

This would be great. I have paid for online learning in the past and will continue to do so. After you factor in gas, tolls, scheduling, babysitters etc it makes sense in most cases. Not sure if this has already been asked, but once you pay and view it, can you refer back to it as needed? I'm all for it. Hope Tim McElwain does it too. Lead the way...

EricAune

That seems to be the only way I can get to you...

The very idea of logistics and travel expenses saved makes it worth it. Besides, you probably don't have a MN trip planned anytime soon. Online training is great.  John Barba, and Taco do a great job for free but they have a vested interest with many millions of dollars in product on the line.  Your product is your intellectual property and for that you should be compensated.   I teach apprentices and journeymen in a classroom setting, they even pay me for that but there are times I would like to ask for a raise!



$20-40 seems acceptable as long as the they are archived and downloadable.  Live is tough for anyone, being on my own schedule allows for a better learning environment every time. Sign me up!

Unknown

Web Seminars

Dan , I have been running free, one hour Webinars for the last 8 months using GoToTraining.  The annual subscription is about $2,400 for unlimited sessions of up to 200 attendees



It works really well - I do a pre-test, the program allows for up and down loading tec docs and PowerPoint Presentations - plus the sessions are recorded for viewing after the session.  Typically I get about 80 to 100 attendees every week.



The good news is the folks that attend really like not having to invest the time and money to travel.  Plus it's great considering all the product launches I have done - hard to keep up.



The bad news is it has really hurt the attendance in our Chicago and Thomasville training sessions (nice to train face to face).  Also, you will never get 100% buy in on the best time and day of the week.



I would highly recommend you do some on line training - let me know if you have any questions or are looking for suggestions...



And to all you wallies, have a great Christmas and all the best for 2012 (hope to see you all at AHR in January - like Dan says, hug your kids (and in my case grand kids!



If any of you want to be included in my future web sessions, drop me an E Mail at steve.thompson@wilo-usa.com

Luv'nsteam

On-line training

Hello Dan,

I suppose it was only a matter of time before this idea bloomed here.  I own, have read (several times) and promote your steam books.  Aside from the incredible information, your style of writing is humorous and enjoyable to read. 



I have not had the privilege of face-to-face training with you, but then I am not an HVAC tech or installer, even though I have installed my own boiler (status currently in limbo, buts that another story all together).  I am a homeowner with decades of technical know-how from various fields of employment and hobbies and I live by the rule 'if I can do it, why not?' (not always a wise way to think).



On-line training is here to stay and indeed, it will continue to grow.  My son goes to school via the laptop and his grades and attitude have improved greatly! 



As for price, I think that for your contractors a flat fee (membership for the year) is a good way to go.  You can sweeten this deal by offering other discounts along with the membership.  But also provide a price (higher, of course) for those who only need certain tutorials.  Set these up, if possible, so that the costs can be written-off for tax purposes.  I do not have a clue what any industry pays for on-line training, but it should be less than a face-to-face seminar.  And because of the very likely possibility that you will receive many more participants in the on-line training, you should be able to lower the cost even more and still make a higher profit.



As for the homeowner, such as myself, it needs to be cheap.  Too many people in general do not properly understand the value of knowledge and thus avoid it even when it can be very beneficial (I'm pleased to say, I am NOT one of these people).



As long as you teach the seminars as you write, you should gain a following that I suspect will snowball into something much larger then you can currently conceive.  I think it is also very important that all seminars are down-loadable and thus watchable again and again - taking notes distracts from the content and some people (like me) have a coating of teflon on the brain which interferes with the ability to absorb everything the first time through. : )



A couple of ideas to keep costs down would be to construct your face-to-face seminars in such a way they could be easily sliced into shorter on-line videos.  Designing the seminars from the start this way will help keep editing costs down.  Another idea is to have the industry retailers pay for the seminar productions for the right to advertise, ie: 'Brought to you by Taco' or whomever.  How exactly to proceed with this is a logistical item you will need to work out with the manufacture/servicer/retailer, etc and your video people.  Start the seminar with a short advertising video or the like, is one idea. 



When you started Heatinghelp.com, you started an incredible way to share information, help people and promote products, advice and services.  Moving to on-line seminars is a natural evolution of toady's society and I think you are really on to something, so long as it is presented and handled in the correct fashion, which I feel you have the personal ability to handle as well as, the resources to make it happen.



The very best of luck to you on this venture and I look forward to watching the seminars myself.



Merry Christmas to you, your family and all the 'Wallie's'.



Thank you,

Mike

SWEI

sounds reasonable

Several proposed models above, all sound workable.  I'd very much like the ability to save them to disk and view (or re-view) later.  Sometimes you get on a job and need a little refresher on the old kit.

DanHolohan

Once again,

my thanks to everyone who is sharing thoughts as I think this through. Much appreciated! 

MikeyB

Seminars

Would pay for both Dan and Timmie's seminars