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Mike Anticipator Settings

crash2009
crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
I sure am liking this Lascar data logger.  It sure is nice to be able to "see" the results of a tiny change such as moving the anticipator from 1.2 to 1.0. 

1.2 heats the building but it over shoots the thermostat 2 degrees.  Also, the boiler doesn't turn on until the thermostat has dropped 2 degrees below it's setpoint.  Its a little uncomfortable to live with a 4 degree spread.   

1.0 is very comfortable but it appears to be expensive. 

Does it appear to you that I should try 1.05 tomorrow or should I go directly to 1.1?

Comments

  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Setting

    I would try the 1.1 setting first.





    I can't read the time scale but it appears the 1.0 cycles are really short. At 1.2 the anticipator is disabled and out of the circuit, so your cycles are completely determined by the thermal  time constants of your system and the building characteristics. That is why the cycles are so long with the large over and undershoot. I believe the mercury T87 has a designed in differential of 2F, the effect of which is modified  by the anticipator.



     

    See what 1,1 does and fine tune from there. And yes, the lascar is really helpful with these type of adjustments!
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Thanks for looking Mike

     That last picture was impossible to see the minutes, sorry about that.  I hope all you needed was the on/off minutes.  Hopefully my labeling will be easier to read.  Kinda reminds me of trying to read the scale on the T87.  The indicator is too far from the scale, so it makes it difficult to say exactly what it is set to.  I thought I read somewhere about hooking up a multimeter to it, along with a wire with 10 loops, and the multi will tell you what your amps are set to.  I'll have to look that up.

    Anyway this is where I am at.  the pic on the right was during the night with the same setting as yesterday 10on/35off/11on/45off/12on/45off.  I nudged the indicator a hair to the left.  If I was set to 1.0 during last night, I am at 1.05 now.  Presently, the pic on the left reads 11on/39off/12on/35off/12on



    Is there an ideal set of on/off times that I should be shooting for? 
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
    Steam Distribution

    With the boiler only running 10 to 12 minutes what kind of steam distribution are you getting? I bet the furthest rads aren't getting any steam. Runtimes should be 20 to 30 minutes to get good distribution. If I were you I would quit playing around and get a digital tstat with a cph switch
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Mark

    Seems to be a lot better with a short run time and a short off time.  The rads fill themselves to about 25%, and they never completely cool off.  The mains never cool either.  This whole exersise got started because of poor distribution when the cycle was 50on/150off/50on.  Granted that was a little extreme, but it seemed to work better that way during the swing.  This place is mostly rented out, I am not in every room every day.  As a mater of fact, I rarely have a reason, unless I get a complaint, or make one up.  I had noticed from outside, the third floor windows were fogged up pretty bad, so I approached the renter, and asked whats up.  He let me in and it was like walking into an ice box.  I went and got the shop vac, removed the vent, and sucked the steam up there.  Then I went the other direction with the anticipator as you can see in the first picture.  Once I got the steam up there and warmed up the pipe, it has continued to go there.  That guy is not home much, his windows are clear today, so I assume his heat is working.  The rest of the house is not a problem, all the other rads are like I said about 25% filled.



    This 10/40/10 type cycle looks a little odd to me too.  Thats why I am here so I can get a better understanding and make some better sense of it.  Thanks for the suggestion to toss the mercury. 



      
  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Optimum run times

    As Mark mentions, your current run times are way too short to insure proper distribution and maximum efficiency. I would say to try to get burn times of 30 to 40 minutes as a best compromise between comfort and efficiency. You should easily be able to accomplish this by setting the anticipator closer to 1.2 . What you really want to achieve is the maximum run time without significant overshoot of the thermostat setpoint.



    Remember that the actual current through the anticipator resistance is not what's important. Rather, it is the heating effect of the anticipator and its relation to the rest of the thermal system that determines the run time. Measuring the current and setting it to the measured value will only get you into the ballpark. Only by trial and error can you really optimize the attenuator setting.



    The whole advantage of the old T87 is that you have the wide range of adjustment of cycle time. With a little effort and the data from the Lascar logger you should be able to optimize the system to your personal preference.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,447
    What is that!!!

    Crash,



    Whatever that logging setup is I want it.  Is it just a thermistor mounted to a radiator or steam main hooked to a usb device?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Lascar data logger

    I felt the same way the first time Mike showed me his graphs.  Its called a Lascar data logger, it comes with a probe that I installed between the flue and the chimney mortar.  The logger itself hangs on the wall, and when you want the data off it, you plug it into your usb and download the data.
  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Lascar loggers

    These guys seem to have the best price and free shipping:



    http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/lascar/dataloggers/elusbtc.htm
This discussion has been closed.