Burnham V8 conversion to NG

BrianStMarie

I have an 9 year old Burnham V83 steam system with a tankless coil for DHW; the system mostly runs great (totally clean, never have to add water), but eats oil at an impressive rate. Previous owners were using roughly 800 gallons of oil per year for a 1000 sq ft condo, with one bathroom and two people. The hot water also sucks, as a tankless coil combined with the 10 minute on/off of the standard CG450 LWCO is a lousy combination.



Seeing as this boiler is not that old and is a good model, I'm inclined to just change the burner, rather than the whole boiler. I'm aware of all the considerations as far as warranty and whatnot, but am not much concerned about it. My questions are these:



1) What conversion burner should I go with?

2) Should I add an indirect with the conversion burner or go with a separate direct gas hot water heater?

3) Is there anyone in the Boston area on these forums who can do this install?



A little more info:



I'm in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston; this city is full of steam systems, so I have to believe there are some steam geniuses around here who can help me turn this into a good system.



The flue on the current boiler feeds into the chimney above the flues of the other two unit owners. This is a three unit condo and they both also have oil. Based on this, I don't think there should be any conversion issues regarding the flue.



There is already a gas line run and capped right next to the boiler. I do not know if the line is big enough for a conversion burner, however.



I've already done the cost analysis of oil vs gas and determined that gas is a good bet by a wide margin, and will be for at least the next few years. Ideally, that will result in a payback period of 5 years or less for this project.



Thanks for any help.

Long Beach Ed

One Chimney

Before you invest too much energy, make certain it is leagal for that gas burner to share a flue with two oil fired appliances.  

BrianStMarie

One chimney is ok

Yes, it's legal and to code here in Boston. Only restriction is that any gas appliances vent above oil appliances. In my case, my boiler flue already vents above everything else, so no change should be necessary.

Charlie from wmass

yes it is legal if the chimney

is in proper working order. You do need a written report for the city inspector now. There are ways to make the oil burner use less fuel. An indirect is good if you are using a fair amount of hot water. A direct fire tank may use less fuel and a tankless will use even less fuel. I would recommend an indirect for most cases but not with a 9 year old V8. That is like dog years compared to other boilers. How is the near boiler piping and venting?

BrianStMarie

Dog years?!

So Charlie, you're saying that 9 years is pretty old for a V8? I was considering it much too new to replace, as it's being used for steam and any new steam boiler is not going to give me much more efficiency than this. I've been under the impression that the V8s are workhorses and would last another 10 or so years without much issue. Wrong impression?



As for the near boiler piping, I've had it checked out and everything seems fine. There is only one main vent, but the entire unit only has 5 radiators. There is a problem with one particular radiator which is caused by its particular run of piping, but that is a separate issue from this conversion.

Steamhead

Depends

on how well it was treated, if the system took in a lot of makeup water, etc.



I'd go with the indirect- we like the SuperStor units for use with steamers- and if the V8 dies, hook the indirect up to the new G8, Intrepid or whatever.

BrianStMarie

Solid system

I've been here almost a year and have yet to need to add any water to the system and the glass is always clear. I take that as a good sign.



Any thoughts on what conversion burner to use with this type of setup? I also have no idea how to find someone in this area who knows what they're doing in this kind of conversion. I'm a strong believer that a converted system will only work as well as the person who installs it, so I don't want to do this unless I have someone I can count on to get it done right.

Steamhead

Midco EC-200 or Carlin EZ-Gas

are two good choices. I'd go with the Carlin if everything else is the same, since both Smith and Slant/Fin have approved it on their G8 and Intrepid series boilers. This would give you more choices for eventual boiler replacement, since you could re-use the burner.



Try the Find a Contractor page of this site.

JohnNY

Oil to gas burner only

Any time I've ever asked a manufacturer about this, or an I=B=R rep, I've been told that oil boilers are made to exchange and vent the heating properties directly associated with the hotter flame of oil and that changing a burner alone would not create a desirable, long term condition in a boiler at the residential level of construction.



Thoughts on this are appreciated, gentlemen.

Ron Jr._3

What about a storage tank ?

Since you have the coil for hot water anyway , I'd recommend using it to heat water in what we call an aquabooster . You don't have to worry about an indirect getting fouled up with steam boiler spooge . It can be wired like an indirect too . Meaning the boiler will sit idle till there's a need for hot water .



I believe you can change the Cycle Guard to let it run constantly . I think it just needs a wire moved to another terminal in the LWCO .

Steamhead

Not all manufacturers

take that position. Buderus, Slant/Fin, Solaia and Smith do support power gas burners (gas guns) in at least some of their wet-base residential boilers- witness the many installation pics we've posted of this type of boiler. I think some others do too but those are the ones I can think of at the moment. We've worked with gas guns in all four brands, and they've done quite well.



Burnham is one of the holdouts. This makes no sense to me at all, since their MegaSteam with gas gun would blow every other residential steam boiler away- and with an anti-corrosion warranty too. I would have no trouble selling these. Why limit the market?



I can see where some earlier non-flame-retention gas guns would have difficulty in newer boilers. You need a tight, compact flame in this type of boiler, and some run with positive pressure over the fire. But the Carlin EZ-Gas, Riello and the dear departed HeatWise SU-2 gas guns can all fire these boilers with ease.



I've heard some other theories regarding this. One that comes to mind is that the oil and gas companies don't like boilers that can burn more than one fuel. They want their customers locked in, without access to the competition. This is sheer nonsense, but typical politics.



Come on- a boiler is a boiler, no matter its size. If gas guns work in larger boilers, they'll work in smaller ones too. We've shown that they do work.

BrianStMarie

CG450

Ron, I would absolutely love to know how to disable the intermittent test feature on the LWCO. The model I have is the CG450-1090. If you have any info on that, I would very much appreciate it.



I'm open to the idea of a booster setup, I'm just adverse to having to keep the boiler temp up all year round. My understanding is that a booster still requires the boiler stay hot at all times, and with 5-10 degF/hr standby loss depending on season, that isn't very fuel efficient. This past summer, I used twice as much fuel keeping the boiler hot as I did actually making hot water.