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aquastat control

875jim
875jim Member Posts: 2
I have a Utica boiler. I have installed two new zones in an addition to the house. I have the new zones with circulating pumps connected to ARGO relays ( one for each zone) When I hooked up the stat wire from the relays,as per instruction provided, to the existing aquastat control on the boiler and the new zones call for heat, it also turns on the existing circulating pump. Can anyone identify the problem?? The existing control on the boiler is a Honeywell, not sure of the number. Installation date was sometime in 1988. Thank you.

Comments

  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    circulator

    You need to disconnect that circulator from the aquastat, and run it thru the Argo. "TT" in the aquastat will power whatever is on C-1 in the control, so if you tied the Argo into "TT", and the zones call for heat, it will pull in the circulator that is still hooked up to C-1. Why not zone valves?
  • 875jim
    875jim Member Posts: 2
    aquastat control

    Thank you for your help. I'll try that. I thought of zone valves after the fact. I could probley still take it apart and put them, right????
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    What terminals are in the Argo relay ?

    If they have extra dry contacts , you can integrate them in , using the ZC and ZR terminals in the aquastat . I'm assuming it's a triple aquastat on the boiler ?



    Installed this indirect today . Used a Taco single zone relay . Has 3 extra terminals for this type of scenerio .  I integrated the tank wiring with the triple aquastat that powers the heating zone . The boiler will sit idle around 110 degrees till there's either a call for heat or hot water .
  • Patchogue Phil_2
    Patchogue Phil_2 Member Posts: 303
    stand-by temp

    Hi Ron.



    I am curious about the 110* standby temp.



    When the boiler goes below 110* while idle,  what temp is it then raised to?    Am I correct that the triple aquastat is set to 110* as the LOW?   What DIFF do you use?



    Hope all is well,  Phil.
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    I'm pretty sure

    I set the DIFF at 20 . HI was 180 , LOW was 120 .



     I haven't installed a triple aquastat in a year or longer , but I believe the high limit diff is a fixed 10 degrees ? The diff dial only works with the low limit setting ?  It's funny how you forget things you knew just months ago .......... 



    Howya doing ? Ever bite the bullet and upgrade yet ?
  • Patchogue Phil_2
    Patchogue Phil_2 Member Posts: 303
    no upgrade

    No upgrade,  cannot swing the initial cost.



    If u recall,  in my existing New Yorker the chamber had some cracks.  I got by for a few years with furnace cement and some long finish nails as "pins".  The guy I was buying oil from wanted over $1K to replace the chamber!!!



    I bought the chamber myself from Patriot Supply,  put on gloves and a mask.  Dug out the old one,  vacuumed the crumbs and I am good to go.  Messy but simple.



    BTW,  I thought the low setting for oil shouldn't be lower than 140*?  
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Temps:

    140 degrees for the operting control (low limit/circulator) is the consensus setting for the least condensing in an oil boiler.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Settings

    That combination of low limit and differential is the worst possible. It will circulate water at 130 degrees,the condensing point.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Temperature settings:

    Are you saying that the triple acting control circculates water at 130 degrees?

    Not so. It will maintain at 140 degrees (that's what I said) but when the thermostat calls, the thermostat over rides the operating control and jumps it up to the high limit, 160 or 170 degrees. The circulator runs when the call comes. The circulator stops if the water drops under 140 degrees. It's the continuous pumping of cold water through the boiler that causes the condensation problems. I run my boiler M-M WTGO-3 at 135 low limit circulator and 170 High limit. I cleaned it with a fluffy radiator dust brush and when donee, it looked like it just came out of the crate.
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    I've had my pin boiler

    running with no low limit for 6 or 7 years . No worse for wear on the inside than when I maintained 180 degrees all year long . I do have an indirect , so it's not a true " cold start " boiler . 



    I wonder what the inside would look like if I used post purge on the heating zones and indirect ?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    re-direct

    icesailor.......you got your post in before I got mine in. I was refering to the 180 high, 120 low, with a 20 degree differential as bad. It will start circulating at 130 and stop at 110.
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    If it was

    a large volume water system with no bypass , I " might " agree about the settings being low . But it's no problem with a baseboard system and indirect , like this one . The boiler holds ALOT more water than the system does and it'll be in a safe running temp range fairly quick .



    Can anyone honestly say they've seen an oil boiler fail because the minimum temp was too low ? I've been doing this a long time and I can't say that . How many of us have seen OLD gravity systems with no bypass that have been running for half a century or decades more ?  Talk about running at low temps for hours ........ 
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    specifics

    Without knowing the specifics of HIS system, I wouldn't advise him to set the low limit that low.The OLD gravity systems you are refering to had boilers that were not built by todays standards. I'm sure you've removed a few, and know that the castings were 3 times the thickness.And I believe the manufacturers saw premature failures of their boilers, and chose to have the aquastat control the circulator on a call for heat,to reduce the time the boiler spent condensing.
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    Sorry Paul

    but I didn't advise the OP of anything . I just stated what I did on a particular indirect install .



    If what you state is true about the boilers of yesteryear , then why would any boiler manufacturer sell a newer style , packaged oil boiler with a cold start aquastat ? You and I both know they sell plenty set up like that .



     Came across a packaged Utica set up just this way today . Original cold start aquastat / relay working with 2 zones and an indirect . Boiler is running fine . We just changed the oil tank .
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    cold start

    Let's see.........We know that cold start boilers will fail faster than warm start boilers. I'd be pushing that set-up,if I was a boiler manufacturer.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    I have:

    I have seen many newer "modern" boilers meet the scrap dealer from being cold start. TRUE cold start. Like a high limit only. Start on demand.

    EVERY cold start boiler I see makes kibbles and bits when the system water is below the 140 range. The colder the temperature, the bigger the bits. They fall into the cracks between the sections on the bottom. They pile up. If and when the boiler is off, the sections shrink. The K&B's fall in between the sections. The heating compresses the K&B's. Any leakage is removed by evaporation. The evaporation water residue ends up outside the gaskets or push nipples. If the boiler goes off on safety for a period of time, there will be water on the floor. The worst offenders I have seen in what I see is the one that can be converted to a boat mooring that has a grey jacket with a dark green top. Also hard to clean. Many, *68 series too. Boilers with swing out fronts have solved this if the person who cleans the boiler opens up the front and cleans the K&B's off the bottom and takes the "rug" out and cleans under it.

    If you convert to warm start, no K&B's and you can clean it with a fluffy synthetic radiator brush. Otherwise, I use a soot saw and a piece of 1/4" threaded rod on a file handle.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Running Fine

    They will run just fine,until they fail 5-10 years prematurely.
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