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Beckett burner fuel pump problem...

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Sawbuzzer
Sawbuzzer Member Posts: 4
Hello-



I am looking for some professional help to tell me if I need a new fuel pump for my beckett AF burner. my unit is a newer model, with many new parts I have added over the last few heating seasons. last year it wasn't igniting, so I added a new transformer and it worked well. this year I had the misfortune of getting the unit wet during the Irene storm when my power was out for several days and water came up in the basement. so I have replaced the motor and cage fan with brand new ones. with the new motor, the bad bearing sound which was occuring is gone, but now there is a new noise, which I suspect to be coming from the fuel pump. initially I thought it might be the cage fan out of balance as the sound is a sort of Rrrrr,Rrrrr,Rrrrrr, phasing type of sound but as the cage is now a brand new one and the noise persists I am back to suspect the fuel pump.



I removed the fuel pump and tried to clean any dirt from around the shaft and the seal, cleaned the filter with compressed air, just gave it some general TLC and put it back on hoping that would cure the noise but no luck... so my inquiry is, can fuel pumps be ruined by water? and thus should I buy a new one? I had to put a new one on when I bought my house three years ago, so this one is almost new... I hate to dump a good part for a new one if it can be serviced? so any suggestions? I ran the system when the new motor was installed & another clue was that the motor was quite hot to the touch after about 10-12 minutes running time, don't want to burn up my brand new motor so I shut it down until I can get some advice on the fuel pump. any suggestions are greatly appreciated.... thanks SB.

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  • Gary_17
    Gary_17 Member Posts: 37
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    Water shouldn't hurt it

    unless it's a clean-cut pump that has an electric solenoid valve built into it. If water could leak into the pump then wouldn't oil leak out of it?
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    What you are probably hearing

    Is a bad burner motor. If it has gone under water, it is surprising that it works at all. The fuel pump is water tight so to speak, so going under water will not ruin the pump. I would replace the motor and coupling, and clean the burner fan. It will get out of balance and add to the laboring sounds. It must not be an open faced motor if it went under water, but some can still get in there. Get a PSC motor, and good luck
  • Sawbuzzer
    Sawbuzzer Member Posts: 4
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    brand new PSC motor, but still have bad sound...

    Hey guys-



    thanks for reading and replying. I do have a new motor in place, that was taken care of already. I replaced it with a PSC motor and a new cage fan, bought from Patriot supply, good supplier there, they ship out really fast. I first put on the motor, then heard the phasing type sound and suspected the fan to be out of balance, and the motor was very hot. so I put on the new fan but the motor is still getting very hot and the noise persists. the unit does fire and run fine, I'm just concerned that something is amiss by this minor noise (RrrrrRrrrrRrrrrRrrrr...) sound while running and the fact that the motor is very hot.



    I'm sure that the new motor is wired and installed correctly. just wondering what to do about the motor getting so hot, it's too hot to hold your hand on the side (where the magnet is) after about ten minutes run time. any suggestions? thanks, SB
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Noisey Motor:

    You need to put an Amp Clamp on the motor and see the amps being drawn while running. It sounds like the pump is bad or clogged up. Did you check the pump strainer and are the filters clean and changed.

    Do you have a spin-on type of fuel filter like a Garber? You need to check the vacuum. I've heard vacuum noise like this on restricted fuel systems.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Noisey Motors:

    Also, I have seen where the motor/pump coupler is too long and not all the way on the shaft, causing pressure on the motor assembly by pushing against the motor thrust bearings. Loosen the two motor bolts a couple of full turns and run the burner. See if the noise gets better or the motor runs with less noise.

    I've seen very few pump shaft couplings be tight and they almost always stay on the couplers. But most couplers stay on the motor shaft end and if I need to change a motor, I have a fun time getting the motor end of the coupling off the motor shaft so I can get the fan cage off. I am very careful to be sure that the plastic motor shaft coupler is all the way on the shaft. If it isn't, when you tighten up the motor, the coupler is too long and might make the problem you are hearing.
  • Sawbuzzer
    Sawbuzzer Member Posts: 4
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    thanks for the help...

    Hey thanks for the tips IceSailor-



    now that you mention it, as per my personality to be very thorough I did tighten the motor mounting bolts very tightly, as I was concerned to prevent the motor from having vibrations,

    but perhaps they are overtight causing the problem as you described with the coupler.

    the next thing I was going to try was to get a brand new coupler as they are pretty cheap, but first I'll make sure it's all the way into the motor shaft and not binding.

    I am going right now to try the solutions you offered to see if any thing works. also I have an electric clamp meter, perhaps I can measure the motor's amps while running as you said. the motor is brand new so I don't want to burn it up... it's time to get some heat going here in PA, so thanks again your advice is very much appreciated... SB.
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    sounds like

    You need to replace and possibly shave a little off the coupling. For whatever reason, PSC motors have a shaft that is slightly longer, and will labor due to that. It also has the potential to harm the fuel pump. When you align the coupling with the shaft, the motor should lock into the burner housing with no resistance. If you have to force it, then the coupling is binding, and will need to be shaved. There are exact length couplings for AF/AFG burners, but I found when PSC's first came out that the shaft length varies from time to time. This will set them both off. Pump and motor
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Coupler Help:

    Buzzer,

    When you pull the motor out of the burner housing, the coupler usually comes out stuck to the motor shaft. The motor shaft connector is usually gray. The connection to the pump is usually green. If the gray connector is stuck on the motor shaft, it is probably OK. Pull the whole coupler off the shaft. I often give it a sniff of Kroil. It will drop off with persuasion. Mark the coupler with a fine magic marker or pencil where the adapters meet the coupler. Try the green pump adapter on the fuel pump shaft. A couple of degrees of slop is acceptable, None is better. Pull the shaft adapters off the coupler and see if the marks are equal on both ends. Then, put the adapters back and force the adapters on as far as they will go. If they cover up the marks you first put on the coupler, you didn't have them on far enough. If the motor adapter is tight on the shaft, make sure it is all the way on. If it isn't together properly, the coupler is too long and will push the armature of the motor against the back of the frame.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Shaving:

    Glad to hear that Bill, I usually shave a tad off the coupler just for squeaks and squawks,

    Someone stopped me last month about a burner they couldn't get going after they changed the motor. It was an EZ-1. They bent the vane that fits inside the cage. I told them they needed to straighten the vane and cut 1/8" off the coupler. They didn't believe me. He told me later that he had to get a new coupler. The old one was too long. DUH!!!
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    coupling lengths

    You know it Ice. That little bit makes a difference. When you add a Field air boot kit, it comes with a new pump coupling due to the length. It it only about 1/8 inch longer, but if you don't use it, the original doesn't last long.
  • Sawbuzzer
    Sawbuzzer Member Posts: 4
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    THe mystery noise continues... & the coupler is not binding.

    Hey everyone-



    I'm going to try this once more, since my PSC motor is still running hot. OK just to review the situation: 1/ original burner motor got wet, bad bearings, replaced with new PSC motor 2/ after motor bearing noise was eliminated by replacement... new noise coming from the fuel pump/ motor overheating after short run time, suspected fan out of balance, replaced cage fan, not the cause of problem. 3/ took pump housing off and cleaned pump filter, also replaced filter at supply line/tank.



    so I've read all the posts about the coupler being too long.... and I have checked that issue, loosened the motor mounting bolts etc. with no improvement in the mystery noise, looked inside fan housing and the coupler actually has a tiny bit of room to move back and forth between the two shafts while installed, its definitely not binding motor.



    I am thinking of buying a fuel pressure gauge and a fuel vacuum gauge, although I'm not sure what they will tell me about my pump so I might just call in an expert. FYI... the pump is a CleanCut- A2EA-6520 with the built in solenoid valve. also- when I kick it on from a cold start, it doesn't fire immediately, it stalls first try then fires about 2 seconds later. once it's been run a few minutes it no longer has that problem it fires right away.



    so I was hoping to not have to replace the fuel pump too, they are expensive, but at this point I don't know what else in the system to suspect, what else is there that would make the motor overheat so quickly? any suggestions greatly appreciated. thanks all, SB.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,889
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    Call a pro

    with proper test equipment, including a digital combustion analyzer. 
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    pump noise

    When was the last time the filter, nozzle, and strainer was replaced? Oil supply line blown/flushed? As Frank said, I think you need to call in a pro. You will buy parts that you may not need, if you do it yourself. The motor should feel quite warm to touch when running any length of time, but not hot. Does the pump shaft turn freely? Is the valve at the pump fully open if it has one?  Any pics would also help
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    First of all...

    There's 2 ways to go about this....replace all the parts....eventually you'll get it right.....or...get the right person, with the right tools, diagnose the problem, then fix/replace.

    After reading your posts, seems to me like your pump is losing its prime.  If it's delay firing, after you hear the solenoid click, on first firing, but not after subsequent firing, that would be where to start.

    You're going to need vacuum and pressure gauges.  Mitco makes a nice manifold, but buy the time you buy it you could just get a pro with one.

    What else is going on with the piping.  Descibe how it's piped (one pipe or two), how big the line, how far from the tank, and the path the line takes.  Is it piped from the bottom of the tank or the top?  Is the tank higher then the burner, lower?

    After answering these questions, then I (we) can tell you how to troubleshoot for pump pressure, cut off, vacuum and what numbers you should be looking for. 

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

This discussion has been closed.