Steam Pipe Noise / Whistle (Top Floor Apt)

JSiatkowski

I have been living in my current apartment, circa 1920s, for over 5 years. It uses a one-pipe steam system and we are on the top floor, so the steam pipes are connected from the floor not only to the radiators, but also to an extension of pipe that goes up nearly to the ceiling. (see photo) At the top of that extension are round bronze things that appear to be vents. We have both of our radiators completely off. One of the pipes is making a very annoying and loud noise which isn't a whistle, but more like a lower growling noise that sounds of lots of steam pressure and some hissing. Typically in years past, when the heat system is on, the pipes will make a few knocks as the steam rises in the pipe and then there is a "ping" as it reaches the vent. It has then been perfectly quiet. This year, all hell has broke lose. Now not only is the system much louder, but the heat is running much longer, leading to very very hot pipes and elevated temperatures. Is this a matter of having to replace the bronze valve at the top of steam pipe extending to the floor or something else?

Jason Quinn

Looks like a Gorton #2

The " bronze valve" at the top of the riser appears to be a Gorton #2 air eliminator. It also appears that the top of it is closed or covered where the air escapes. Is that the case? If so, it could be the reason why the system is running longer.

JSiatkowski

it is covered

I just put it there a few mins before the photo - there is some steam / water sputtering from it, and its near electronics so i wanted to prevent any damage. It was some paper towel taped lightly. Its been taken off but nothing has changed - still a lot of steam noise and a relentless supply of heat. Is there any danger of the heat causing damage to the pipe or bursting?

Jason Quinn

Recent service or maintenance

Perhaps you can ask the building super or manager if recent service or maintenance was performed on the system leading to this change in "behavior".

JSiatkowski

Super claims nothing has changed....

No service, etc. as per management - I will note that heat was only recent turned on for the season, so the behavior hasn't changed from one call of heat to another; its been like this since its been turned on. Only now that its getting actually cool, the problem seems to be getting worse as the heat is called more often.



In previous winters the main and the Gorton #2 only made noise when the steam initially came up. As the steam entered the vertical part of the main, there would be a series of small knocks and then once at the air eliminator, as you indicated it is called, there would be a single "ping" type noise. After that, the system would be silent unless we had the radiator on, which is very rare since the vertical section is uninsulated and itself gives off sufficient heat.



I just want to make confirm that this is indeed not normal behavior in that the main should not be scoring hot for 5-6hours at a time. The temperature in NY has gotten cool, but not the that extent. Even with radiators off my apartment is pushing 85° unless i open the windows. Pair that with the irritating as hell sucking/hissing/gurgling noises from the top of the main vertical and its not a fun situation.



thanks

Jason Quinn

Temperature or pressure controls

Maybe the buildings' heating or boiler pressure controls are not working properly; perhaps the building is utilizing a Heat Timer or Tekmar control system monitoring indoor/outdoor temperature with sensors and its not working right. Just a thought.

JSiatkowski

thanks

I'll bring it up w/ building management. My super's not come to my apt as I've asked, as he claims the thermostats are all operating normally. As far as I know, the call for heat is based off of outdoor temps, as its only when its sub 55° that the hear kicks on.



More importantly, I think, is that we have two main verticals, one in the living room (the evil one) and one in the bedroom, which is acting just fine. This is why I was thinking that it could be that the bronze air eliminator is faulty. Could an improperly functioning air eliminator be the cause of all that noise and excessive heat to the pipe?

Jason Quinn

Faulty vent or air eliminator

Best of my knowledge in a one pipe system, a faulty vent will most likely lead to a no heat or slow heat situation rather than an excessive heat situation. I could be wrong, though. Perhaps the noise is due to the fact that the vent is not working properly or that it is not properly sized. This depends on the size of the vertical pipe (circumference) and the length of the pipe.

JSiatkowski

what about how one pipe is fine...

but the other is crazy loud and hot? as far as I know, all of the heat comes from a single boiler in the basement of our building. there are 6 units in our building, two per floor.



just weird that one pipe is acting as per usual, no excessive heat, no noise and the other is going bonkers.



I will go above my super's head to the building manager b/c this is obviously one for a pro. thanks for your input

Jason Quinn

Does the other riser in your apt

have the same air eliminator at the top of it? Is it working normally-,quiet and dry?

nicholas bonham-carter

failed main vent

one situation which could explain the dissimilar performance of these main vents on 2 separate risers would be the operating pressure of the system. when the pressure exceeds the maximum operating pressure of the vents, not every one will fail to close. so one could fail, while the other one still hangs on for dear life. this may be caused by the pressure control becoming plugged up, and not "seeing" the pressure.

excessive pressure [3+ pounds/sq. inch] in a steam system not only kills main vents, but also uses more fuel, without providing any more comfort-in fact less.

in this case, the loss of steam will have to be compensated for by the addition of more fresh oxygenated water which will accelerate the demise of the boiler. when you talk to management, i suggest you show them this site, and they will learn that a bit of regular maintenance will actually save money instead of costing money!

frequently employees, such as your super, learn that delaying the repair of minor problems causes them to be needed by the building owner to "babysit" the dysfunctional boiler, prolonging their employment! 

the pressure should never rise above 1.5 psi [for basic function], or better yet, 8 ounces [economy, and comfort].--nbc