Feedback on boiler installation

KnaveP

I just had this Burnham IN7I boiler installed on Nov 15th. The I/O guide on page 17 drastically differs from what was done. The plumber who installed the system is adamant that the condensate will flow back because the supply pipe is pitched correctly but my interpretation of the installation guide leads me to the following:

1) Header should be 3 inch pipe and not 2 

2) Supply should be perpendicular or 45deg from TOP of header - not the side

3) The low side of the supply should be tied into the return line and not the equalizer

4) with the above 3 items, is the Hartford loop correct ?

Observation: Why is the water so dirty? It is worse than the 25yr old Weil-McClain that was taken out?

I am meeting with the plumber because he wants to explain the his installation and why it is good. Any feedback would be highly appreciated. I am one frustrated homeowner who selected a plumber with a presence on "Find a contractor"

rcrit

header size

The question is whether the manufacturer's warranty still applies if the minimum installation specs weren't followed.



"The Lost Art" says that if the wrong size is used you could end up with wet steam. Is the system hammering like mad on a cold start?



I just had my boiler replaced last week and my water isn't nearly as dirty as yours. It has been rather mild here in Maryland so it hasn't had too much time to run

MotownSteamer

Not sure about the piping

I'm a homeowner, not a pro but I just had my boiler replaced and have some thoughts:



-any deviation from the manufacturer's instructions might void the warranty. Those diagrams/specs should be followed

-a 3" may not be critical to system performance, but I think they are optimal, like drop headers (which by the way, would've fit nicely in your application

-was any skimming done after the install? I'm skimming nightly to get rid of the oils from the new boiler. Hopefully he piped in a valve on the skim tap to make this homeowner friendly.

-the excess pipe dope should be cleaned off



I guess the big questions is.....how's it all working?

nicholas bonham-carter

minimum requirements

while the drop header would have been easier to fit into your piping configuration, it is the optimum setup, as would have been more than 1 riser.

the piping arrangement shown in the installation manual [available on-line] for your boiler represents the minimum acceptable piping as specified by the manufacturer.

when you go over the piping of the boiler with the plumber, make sure all the pipe sizes are as shown-diameters-header-riser-etc.

the boiler must be cleaned, and that time-consuming job is often left to the homeowner, with a skim-port installed by the plumber.--nbc

Mike Kusiak_2

Gas piping

Aside from the issues you mentioned, the gas piping also seems not up to specs. It is hard to tell in the first photo, but it appears that there is no drip leg at the bottom of the gas line where it connects to the boiler. Instead of an elbow, there should be a tee connection with a length of pipe towards the floor to catch any dirt or condensate before it can reach the gas valve. Every gas boiler installation manual will clearly show this configuration, which it seems you dont have.

This is a serious error and definitely should be corrected.

lchmb

one other

observation, your water heater vent turn's down to enter your chimney. This is not correct as the vent need's to alway's pitch up to the chimney...

KnaveP

Update: Coversation with plumber

Met with the plumber this morning and mentioned my grievances to him. His responses seriously questions the quality of work done. For instance, regarding minimum specifications - response was that the manufacturer labs and reality are different and that they have done numerous installs just using 2 inch pipes as headers. For the drip leg his response was that it is no longer used as a person can attach a gas line to it and that gas is clean.



My retort was that I am paying to get this job done and my expectation is for the installation to meet minimal manufacturer specifications. So, he will be back to correct the piping. But I still do not get that warm fuzzy feeling.

ChrisJ

Whatever

Happened with this?



Did it get straightened out?

KnaveP

Later this month

The plumber will be installing a drop header later this month. Complained that it is costing him time, material and money to correct.

ChrisJ

Eh

Do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again, Right? 



Also as far as I know a dust trap \ sediment trap is required by code in most if not all areas on a vertical drop in a gas line excluding stoves, dryers and I think fireplaces, but I'm only a home owner.



To be honest there are only a few people in the world I'd trust to work on my boiler and they post on this site regularly.

BobC

Do it right or do it over

While he is correcting the near boiler piping have him install a skim port and a ball valve so you can skim the boiler. It looks like he may have added  some chemical to the boiler after he installed it. That should be flushed out a few days after after he has fininshed with the new piping UNLESS there is a specific reason for that chemical additive.



good luck,



Bob

Long Beach Ed

Gas Drip

Check with your local municipality about that gas drip.  It's required everywhere that I know and would probably void the gas valve warranty if absent. 



In some areas, they don't want them in places where a homeowner could use them to add an appliance illegally. 



A boiler would not be one of those places according to our local jurisdictions. 



The boiler's installation must match the manufacturer's instructions.  Otherwise the fitter should provide you with a letter from the manufacturer approving any deviations.  We do this from time to time and Burnham is happy to comply when necessary. 



This is the only way to assure your warranty.  

KnaveP

re: Gas Drip

I am in Yonkers and it uses the NYS code. The NY code located here, http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/st/index.htm,  says that a sediment trap is required. I am in the hole and he complains. My mistake was assuming that because he advertises on this site that he is reputable. There is no facilty  to review plumbers.



For the 2 boilers that he did, the Hartford loop where it joins the equalizer, is 3 inches below the height listed in the installation manual. Install guide has 26 5/8 inches from floor of boiler, he installed at 23 inches.



Thanks for the idea about the letter.

gerry gill

It needs to be redone...

i put in alot of those boilers..the header size does matter in a big way..a 3'' header doesn't sound much bigger than a 2'' but its enclosing twice the square inch area as the 2'' does..that makes a huge difference to water steam seperation and velocity.