Glycol ph tester & purge pump recomendations

NYplumber

Currently I own a EXTECH refractometer, and their laser thermometer.



Now I need to add a Ph tester and a quality purge pump for snow melt work.



Grainger has a nice looking EXTECH digital Ph tester.

<a href="http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/EXTECH-Waterproof-pH-Meter-2HEK6?Pid=search">GRAINGER PH tester</a>



As for the pump, I'm unsure which to purchase. Seen some nice looking liberty 1/2hp pumps with other contractors, but not sure which to buy.





Please advise.

Thanks in advance.



Ps. Some really nice Lochinvar firetube wall hung boiler w/radiant work photos coming soon!

hot_rod

This Teel

served me well for 20 plus years. Liberty has a nice aluminum version, the 331.



1/2 hp is plenty for most residential and light commercial filling. It helps to be able to valve off some zones or loops to get a good gpm flow to push air and dirt. 1/2 hp is probably not enough power to flush GEO loops.



I added a ball valve, liquid filled gauge and a water resistent switch. An accurate gauge helps prevent popping relief valves. The ball valve allows you to quickly stop the flow and turn the power off to prevent dead-heading.



Get a few 10' washing machine hoses from Johnstone Supply. Cut one in 1/2 so it fits into the spout of a 5 gallon glycol pail. I like a clear hose for the purge so you can see when the entrained air is flushed.



hr

meplumber

Liberty and Wayne

I have owned 2 Liberty's and 2 Wayne's in my time. I currently have a Liberty 331. Both manufacturer's make great pumps. As does Teel. I prefer the Liberty now, because Wayne and Teel parts have become hard to get. I can get a Liberty impeller and brush kit at the counter of 2 of my supply houses.



I pump A LOT of boiler antifreeze. I also use mine to pump RV antifreeze through domestic lines to winterize a couple hundred summer homes every fall. So I use the heck out of my pumps. I usually have to rebuild them every other year. I would recommend either of the three. My suggestion would be to check on rebuild kit availability.



Good Luck.

NYplumber

Pump thanks

Thanks for the suggestion on the pump hr & meplumber.

Ordering a liberty.



As for testing ph, any suggestion guys?



How about a favorite brand glycol? Some are more concentrated than others, making purchasing tricky when comparing prices.

meplumber

PH Tester

I like the Extech. I have their refractometer and pH testers. I can't say that I have tested a lot of them though. Had a Westward one once that was junk.



As for glycol. I like Utility. It has always been good to me. It is predictable, and they have been making antifreeze for a long time.



Let me know how you like your new pH tester when you get it. I am in need of a new one.

Jean-David Beyer

I have a pH meter that looks like that, ...

... but it is a different brand. The price was about the same. I imagine they are all made in the same factory in China. Mine is labeled HANNA Instruments HI 96108 and claims it is temperature compensated from 32F to 122F.



I am not a professional, so I do not know what matters to someone who makes his (or her) living with these. They are not the same thing you see in a chem lab (chem lab ones cost more).



What I do not like about them is that you must calibrate them at close to the same temperature as you are going to use them. I first tested my boiler water (plainwater) and the pH was unexpected (I forget if it was way too acid or too basic. I had just calibrated the tester with the buffer solutions at room temperature, and I knew the pH of the water that was put into the boiler.



I then chilled the buffer solutions a little and recalibrated. Then the boiler water, that had cooled down a little, had a completely different pH reading. Like one pH unit different. I could understand the water getting slightly more acidic by absorbing C02 from the air, but not an entire pH unit.



I finally learned to calibrate with the same temperature buffer solution as the water to be tested. What I now do is test in the summer time, quite a while after the indirect has run, so that the boiler water is about the same temperature as the buffer solutions. I cannot imagine that a professional would be willing to put up with this.

icesailor

Anti-freeze and draining houses:

MePl,

I drain a lot of seasonal houses too and I pumped antifreeze into systems only a couple of times. It was too much of a PITA and I took up the air pump.

Don't talk this up, but in the time it takes you to pump out a water heater, I can have the whole house drained, and no anti-freeze residue left in the potable water system. I paid less than $200 for my air compressor that has a "hot dog" tank. It weighs less than 50# and it is one of the most used tools in my truck. I did some boiler piping today. When I was done, I immediately tested the whole system. I have my "rig" that I connect to any place I can put air into the system. If a 50 gallon water heater is in a cellar, and I am draining it with a hose, it will be empty before I can go upstairs and drain a bath. Once the WH is drained, I use it as an air storage tank. It drains everything. I only use antifreeze in traps, washing machines, dishwashers and a cup in toilet overflows. Open the faucets until you get "smoke", run the solenoids until air, including ice makers, and you are done. I often leave the system pressurized for the winter and come back in the Spring and there is still pressure. I just turn on the pump it local water, fill the water heater etc and leave.

And so smelly antifreeze odor while purging all the old anti-freeze out of the system.

hot_rod

Same brand

of meter that I use. Seems to work fine.



I think you get what you pay for with hydronic glycols.



The more expensive brands have a better inhibitor package. If you are working on systems with aluminum alloy boilers or HX, be sure to get an Al glycol.



You can buy glycol pre-mixed or full strength. In my area 35-40% has worked well. Up Wisconsin, Minnesota way 50% is suggested for solar.



I always keep a 5 gallon bucket of 100% just to boost up systems that have too low of a protection %



Rhomar, Dow, Nobel, Douglas and Hercules are all brands I have used. There are a few major producers of the raw product, then the smaller packagers add the inhibitor package and put in in various size containers.



We are looking at a bio-based glycol made from corn. Lower viscosity than PG, higher boiling point, but lower specfic heat, so some pros and cons. The price is more stable and we can lock in for a longer period of time. PG and EG prices can move around a lot based on oil prices.



Keep a tight lid on your un-used glycol so you don't deplete then O2 inhibitors.



Here is a Fill and Purge cart that will be available in 2012. A few more modifications and it is ready for prime time. Currently with a powerful (non- Berlusconi) 1/2 hp Italian pump.



hr

Rod

Air Purge

We purge seasonal houses with air too!   It's a lot less hassle.

- Rod

NYplumber

interesting

Thanks hr for the brief explanation on glycols. Interested in reading more about the corn based variety. That's a neat cart too!







Off topic, about winterization of homes, my only experience is with air, and to date it works well.

meplumber

Winterization of Homes.

On homes built before copper went through the roof, we still drain them. The piping was pitched to low points where plugs are removed.



With the prevalence of pex for domestic lines, we have to pump the domestic lines with RV antifreeze. When it is -20 and the wind is howling, any residual water from sagging pex will burst.



We also blow out some houses with copper when we are concerned about whether the water lines are still properly pitched.



The one thing to watch out for is galvanized pipe. Glycol and galvanized pipe don't like each other.



Good Luck.

icesailor

Purging/winterizing houses:

I blow out everything.

PEX doesn't break when frozen except when it does.

I drain EVERYTHING with air. Copper, galvanized (don't see much of that anymore), copper and PEX. Potable water and heat.

I drained a duplex today that is two stories with a finished basement. It has series looped baseboard on all three floors with three bathrooms, three zones, a Munchkin and an indirect in each unit. I blow the whole systems. I've done it for over 5 years. I have never had a single break. There is no way to drain the heat. There are no drains on the  heat drops and they are in ceilings.

I blow the water heater tank and use it as a temporary air storage tank. I set my air regulator for 60# and leave it. I purge the heat system through the fill valve and use the bypass. If it is set up properly so you can purge the air out of the system when filling it, you can blow all the water out of the system.

If you are worried about water being left in the system, I drained houses for years the old way. I pitched things to low points to drain. Pulled solenoid valves off etc. When I found installs done by "pros's" that think that "pitch" is a musical term and that "a low point" is a bad time in your life, I had to start antifreezing. It was extremely expensive and difficult. What convinced me about air was the large amount of houses I plumbed and drained by opening up drains and never had a problem. I did a few houses and after they were drained, I put the air to them. I was surprised to see how much water was still in the system and I never had a problem.

There's no end to what you can do with compressed air.