New Boiler going in!

MotownSteamer

Here are some pics from the install of my new New Yorker CGS-A80. Demo started two days ago. Awesome contractor here in Detroit. He has been very patient with my questions and input. We should be done on Monday, with skimming to follow our first few days of steaming.



He and I welcome comments and feedback, even criticism. Keep in mind it's not done yet. By the way, this is for a two-pipe Trane vapor system.

clammy

1 comment

Instead of a elbow on the return into the boiler you should put a full tee with a reducing bushing and then a full port ball valve and a adapter to a hose bib .this way you an drain the boiler quickly and flush out the bottom on the boiler  tomake it easy to remove any sediment.On another note how close is the wate line on the new boiler compared to either the one your replacing or the original .Make sure any main drips if you have them did not lose there water seals and also install a vaporstat ,trane systems where vapor systems and work best when using a vaporstat instead of pressuretrol that comes with the boiler  and make sure your main vents are sized properly and working  and if you have  cross over traps make sure they are working properly to .peace and good luck clammy

MotownSteamer

Thanks Clammy

The pictures don't don't show it but on the back of the boiler we piped a drain bib. We also tee-ed off the safety valve tapping for a skim port. Yup, I ordered a vaporstat too but we haven't installed it yet. I replaced the the crossover traps and the old vacu-vent so we should be ok out in the system. Thanks for the input; I'll post some more pictures when we're done!

Long Beach Ed

Easy to be critical...

Ever hear of Cast Steam Fittings?  The malleable fittings used are incorrect, will be impossible for the next guy to get off and won't pass an inspection here. 



And easy on the pipe dope.  That's some mess.  Another code failure here... 



Otherwise better work than lots of what we see out there.!

MotownSteamer

Ouch!

Ok, thanks for the feedback; I'll discuss with him tomorrow. I assume he plans on cleaning off the excess thread compound but I'll make sure of it. What is the issue with the malleable fittings? The old stuff didn't come apart either; we had to bust it apart with sledges.

MotownSteamer

Steaming for the first time.......

and, we have white vapor wafting up from the riser openings and the vent collar. Now, it's stinky down there which I suspect is all the machine oil burning off. But does that explain this smoke? Smoke, vapor, I guess that's the question. Not a burning smell, just smells like a machine shop. Also, the radiators are heating slower than when I had the old 492000 BTU boiler; does that make sense?



So what about the white clouds? If it's wet steam, why would it be coming from the top of the boiler? Defect? Normal? Yikes!

MotownSteamer

here's a video

The hissing is the sound of the gas burner. The second hissing sound is the air vent overhead.



Here is a short video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bEVKA1y9ck

MotownSteamer

Seams to be dissipating

Been running for a little more than an hour. Smell is not as strong, smoke down to a dribble. Must've been oil, yes?

lchmb

did

you skim the boiler?

MotownSteamer

no, skimming in a day or two

the installer did a chemical boil first and drained it off from the bottom. Figured we'd steam for a day or two, then skim. The oil in the water is ready to roll off; it's sitting on top just like turkey gravy.

STEAM DOCTOR

smoke

the smoke is the machine oil burning off. might take a few days to get rid of it entirely. First time it happened to me it scared the wits out of me. Nothing to worry about.

MotownSteamer

good news

Thanks, yes I agree. Just breaking her in. No complaints so far. Steaming for about an hour and 20 minutes and no pressure yet. Condensate is returning, radiators are all hot, no noise. Boiler is so quiet I keep running downstairs to see if the burner is still firing!

AlfredE

Cast iron fittings

"Easy on the dope"......"some mess"........"code failure".......pleeeeeeeeease

then "better work then lot's"   Long Beach?  Could we see some of you work?

AlfredE

Cast iron fittings

"Easy on the dope"......"some mess"........"code failure".......pleeeeeeeeease

then "better work then lot's"   Long Beach?  Could we see some of you work?

AlfredE

He must be a dope

If they doesn't clean off that dope I'd fire them.....that boiler will never operate correctly.  Remember.......no hope with dope!  Did you help with the demolition.......or do you have a mouse in you pocket?

AlfredE

cast iron

Beach.......searching everywhere in the code books for that cast iron violation......can"t find.  Could you point me in the right direction.  Has to be in black and white to enforce.  Maybe your inspector is all wet..........behind the ears?    

AlfredE

Clam Bake

Just wondering.........but wouldn't it be better to install a tee at the LOWEST point, then drain off the bull-head?  Seems a tee at the boiler would allow sludge to collect below it.  Even a bushing at the end of the tee would allow slude to collect in the bottom 3rd of the pipe.  The way the picture shows it.......they installd a tee at the lowest pipe......then went the extra mile (and cost since extra fitting is needed) to add a tee, and turn it down.  That company should get kudos all around.

MotownSteamer

Ok, lets settle down

The boiler is great. The piping is great. The house is warm. The dope is colorful. The homeowner is happy.

clammy

Reply to alfred e

Usually when piping the return tapping iuse the full size nipple say peerless 63 series 2 1/2  tapping .I do not reduce my return tapping and i usually do not drop my vertically ,i would go horizontally  to line up with my equilizer.I would use say a 2.5 x 2 tee the 2 inch for my equilizer ,One of the reasons i do this is to be able to wash out the bottom of the boiler i have some custom made wands for the job i like to wash out the bottom end between the sections after a few years of operation.This is just the way i do it to each there own peace and good luck clammy 

Rod

Happy Homeowner!

LOL- Nothing better than a happy homeowner! Looks great and I'm glad it is working so well for you. With winter coming it will be nice to have your new steam system to keep you warm and comfortable.

Since you mentioned you're about to start skimming, I've attached some info  that might be of help to you.

- Rod

Long Beach Ed

Happy

You're happy with the job and you're saving money right now with less fuel than the old beast burned.  Your job is better than 90% of what I see out there. 



All is good. 

MotownSteamer

Here are pics of the finished job

Well, not the floor. I have much to do there. But, he didn't install a boiler ROOM, he installed a boiler. Enjoy.

lchmb

take

some speedy dry and odor gone powder and put it on the floor..walk on it for a couple day's and then sweep it up. Floor will look new when done.

MotownSteamer

Just learning the boiler

Ok, so we steamed tonight for about an hour and a half. We have a Vaporstat installed, but I don't have a low pressure gauge yet. I put the thermostat way up just to keep steaming for a while. We never registered pressure. The Vaporstat was never called in to cut the burner. With all the emphasis on running a vapor system as low as you can, I take it this is a good thing, right?



Now, another thing. In my video from last night, I thought the hissing was the burner. but there is another hiss, coming from the steam chest. Should I be able to hear steam production in the boiler? Its an audible, "steamy" hiss. Normal, or a steam leak somewhere? We've not had any water leakage during skimming.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bEVKA1y9ck

Long Beach Ed

Smoke

What you show in the video looks like smoke from the oil or rust preventative that's on the smoke pipe and the boiler.  It should be gone in a few days.  The odor will linger on for perhaps a month of firing.  That pipe dope all over everything will stink a lot longer. 



If you have a steam leak you'll know it quickly by the amount of water you lose.  After this thing is skimmed and cleaned for a good six or eight hours, and after it has operated for a week or so, you shouldn't have to add much water to it.



If you find yourself losing water, it's time to get the plumber back and look for a leak. 



The plumber should have capped and pressurized the boiler with water before installing it, so he would have found any leak in the boiler before it went in.

Long Beach Ed

Smoke

What you show in the video looks like smoke from the oil or rust preventative that's on the smoke pipe and the boiler.  It should be gone in a few days.  The odor will linger on for perhaps a month of firing.  That pipe dope all over everything will stink a lot longer. 



If you have a steam leak you'll know it quickly by the amount of water you lose.  After this thing is skimmed and cleaned for a good six or eight hours, and after it has operated for a week or so, you shouldn't have to add much water to it.



If you find yourself losing water, it's time to get the plumber back and look for a leak. 



The plumber should have capped and pressurized the boiler with water before installing it, so he would have found any leak in the boiler before it went in.

Long Beach Ed

Smoke

delete duplicate post

Long Beach Ed

Smoke

delete duplicate post

AlfredE

Don't believe all you read.......

Long Beach,  The pipe dope is not excessive.  The pipe dope is made to withstand temps and pressures exceeding what a low pressure boiler will produce....that includes burning and smelling.  Packaged boilers are pressure tested at the factory before shipping.  A plumber is a fine thing to be, but if it was my boiler I would want that company to hold mechanical, boiler installers, and boiler service licenses....besides plumbing.  A contractor with over 33 years of steamfitter-pipefitter experience is even better.  Some plumbers (I said SOME) set toilets and snake drains and do an occasional boiler.  What are your credentials LB?              



 

ChrisJ

Smoke or steam

The difference between smoke and steam is steam dissapears, smoke does not.



I cannot tell from the video how long its hanging around, but when I fired up my new boiler last Sunday the pipes in the header smoked pretty bad as the oil burned off and it lingered in the basement a while.  After the first firing it stopped though the basement still smells like "new boiler".



Is that smoke or steam dissapearing right away, or is it hanging around in the basement?

MotownSteamer

The "smoke" is not an issue

I figured out it was the oil burning off. All gone now. The system is working great. I still don't have insight into the no pressure deal. I'm so used to the old boiler jumping up to the cut out. I'm going to get a low pressure gauge soon so we can really get a read on that.



Next up-insulating the near boiler piping.



By the way, the installer cleaned up the dope. Now there is enough clearance for the insulation (ha ha ha ha!)

Mark N

No Pressure

Your old boiler was 490,000 BTUH input, your new one is 245,000 BTUH. IF they sized your new boiler correctly that means your old boiler was twice as big as it should have been. It produced twice as much steam as your system could condense. That will cause the pressure rise quickly.

AlfredE

tough crowd

well not sure if there's a crowd here........but a tough few guys anyway

AlfredE

good idea clammy

The full size tee to visually inspect inside the boiler sounds like a good idea.  But dropping down allows swing joints for an easier (but costs a few more clams for the contractor) install.  As we all know swing joints are good for expansion and contraction, and could extend the life of the boiler and piping.  Also a bushing will prevent some of the "mud" from flushing out of the bottom of the boiler.  Maybe combining both methods would push this install into the mid to upper 90 percentile?

MotownSteamer

Makes sense

Another good reason for putting in a properly sized boiler (and yes, we did an EDR and sized based on that).



So, since I'm new to a properly functioning boiler/system, could the burner fire and produce steam for a couple hours (assuming the thermostat still called for heat) and not raise the pressure to the cut out limit? Is that kinda the goal?

Mark N

Cut-Out

I'm not sure about 2-pipe systems, I have a 1-pipe system. The boiler is sized to be able to completely fill all the rads in 1 hours time. In a 1 pipe system only after all the vents have closed should the pressure start to build to the cut-out pressure. When the boiler is oversized the system is unable to condense all the steam and the pressure will rise. I don't think that the boiler should run for hours unless it was extremely cold out well below zero out. Its been as low as zero here and my boiler will only run for 20 to 25 minutes to keep the house at 70.

David Sutton_6

I miss the old days :-(

when we built each other up....

Ban

Who is your steam pro?

Are they in the Detroit area? We have had extreme difficulty keeping our boilers functioning and even more difficulty finding competent steam pros. We have essentially learned how to do everything ourselves (thankful for this website). We have to replace a 600,000 btu Utica after winter. Please help! We are Downtown.