Buderus vs Burnham, stainless steel vs stone-lined

mimsy

I am replacing an old, inefficient furnace in a very old home in New England. The home is part oil heat and part electric (in the newer portion of the home).I have blown-in alot of insulation but oil and electric bills are still high. Eventually I would like to convert the electric heat so the whole house is on oil (forced hot water). The price on that is too high to do all at once so I am going to start with replacing the current oil burner and water heater.  I have gotten 2 quotes. One is for a Burnham MPO-1Q147 boiler with Beckett AL50SL stone-lined indirect water heater. It includes outdoor reset and controls for domestic hot water. This is offered by a larger, regional/national chain of installers.  The other quote is by my local plumber (who I really like and trust).  He wants to use a Buderus boiler and some other brand of stainless steel water heater. He has not given me any details on specific models. My local guy's price is about $2500-3000 more than the "big company". If the Buderus and stainless steel water heater is a better set-up and worth the price difference, I would prefer to go with my current plumber. If they are equivalent or the Burnham is a decent system, I would prefer not to pay thousands more just because I like my plumber. Thoughts?

lchmb

I like

both of them. I have installed a number of each. The efficiency is close on each. Only thing that would really make a big difference is the install. Will they be replacing all circulators/zone valves? will they be pumping away? all new controls? Will they warranty their work for a year and be there if something fails? btw, I like a stone lined tank myself but again, apples/oranges. Warranty on the tank is the big thing...

Mac_R

Buderus vs Burnham

I have extensive training on the MPO and Buderus.  I live only 20 min from the plant they make the MPO in Centerville PA.  I have been through the factory training.  I have to say I like the Buderus.  The cast Iron in the Buderus is better quality.  The tappings in the Buderus are 1-1/4" supply and 1" return.  the MPO is 1-1/2" Supply and I believe ether 1" or 1-1/4" on the return.  does not mean much just you will need to use different bushings. But the thing that really separates the Buderus from the MPO is Buderus's Logamatic 2107 control.  The Logamatic control is what makes Buderus Buderus.  How I install my Buderus boilers is easy.  Put the main living space on constant circulation and if the bedrooms are on their own zones put in zone valves that just open and close with the thermostat.  You will need to use the BFU or room temp sensor for the living space.  Just replace the thermostat with the BFU.  Now you need to be careful.  Do not use any tank but the Buderus indirect with the Logamatic.  You WILL have problems.  I recommend the S120 indirect.  The other tanks are nice.  But the output on the other tanks are not worth the price difference.  Do your self a favor.  Have them install outside air to the burner.  And use the NX burner with the Buderus.  The Rello is good.  I just like the NX.  out of the dozen or so I have installed in the last year.  I have never had an issue.  Plus the NX uses all off the shelf parts.  The Rello uses all Rello parts.  Good luck finding them in the middle of the night. 

lchmb

and I

personally dont like the NX. I also carry a Riello kit and can say I havent used anything out of it this year...Check with your service company to see what they prefer. You can have the best unit out there but if they cant work on it......

mimsy

thanks and clarification

thanks all, so if i am understanding this correctly, the stainless steel vs stone-lined is a matter of preference and not a "no-brainer" in terms of what is recommended in my situation. It also sounds like if I use a Buderus boiler, I should NOT use another brand of stainless steel water tank, but an indirect Buderus tank. Does indirect refer to the stone-lined or can indirect be stainless steel? I am assuming the Buderus water tank is more expensive than whatever he was planning to use so the price will go up more than the $2500-3000 it already is? When you talk about installing outside air to the boiler, does that refer to the reset feature that adjusts the heating based on outdoor temperature or is this a different feature?  Do all the Buderus boilers come with the Logamatic 2107 or is this something I need to make sure he is including?  Thanks again. Sorry to be dense, this is all new to me and I am trying to understand it since it is such a big investment. I am not in this home much so it will be set at 55 deg alot of the winter if that makes any difference.

lchmb

some answers

Buderus does make their own tank and the nice part is, the boiler can be stacked on top of it to lesson space used. Outside air for combustion means there will be a tube from the burner to the outdoors that will allow air into the burner while running. The good part is that it slow's infiltration air coming into your house so it will improve your efficiency and it also allows the burner to run better. The 2107 is not included in every system but is well worth an investment. I am not sure how much over all it will affect your performance where you are maintaining a lower temperature.

Mac_R

Buderus

I have seen anywhere from a 50-80% reduction in annual usage using a G115 with the 2107 and a S120 indirect.  I just put in a system for a person that has radiant ceiling heat.  I used the Buderus Quick mix station with the card for the 2107.  The system does not even run a quarter of the time the old system did.  Not to mention I took out a 178,000 BTU IBR rating unit and put in a G115WS-5 with an output of 119,000 BTU the load calc came back at 115,000.  So the system is still a little to big.  But with the Logamatic and the quick mix station that should not matter too much.  The next smallest unit is 95,000 BTU output.  Any ways.  The point I am trying to make is if your contractor installs the boiler properly and you use the 2107, you should see some real savings. 

Robert O'Brien

Buderus ; Riello vs NX

The NX performs better in the 115 than the Riello IMO. Not a huge difference but it is noticeably quieter as well,either way you can't go wrong.

lchmb

also

You could also look at the GB1125. Come across a few of them recently and they are a nice system..

mimsy

more specifics on this question

so i have gotten more info from my plumber. He would use Buderus oil fired hydronic boiler with a Buderus logmatic control and a 52 gal Lochivar Indirect stainless steel water heater. Price would include all new circulators, flo checks, relay, valves and expansion tank as well as electrical.  The competition has the Burnham MPO-1Q147 with beckett AL50SL indirect water heater, outdoor reset, air expansion tank, spirovent air eliminator, priority control for domestic hot water, safety shut-off valle to oil tank, flue piping with draft regulator to the chimney.  My plumber (first description here) is about $2100 more cost-wise. This is for a second home that is rented out for a few weeks in the summer and a few weeks in the winter so it is not getting constant use. I may stay there by myself a couple of days a month. I can't see any compelling reason to pay the additional $2100 unless there is a better long-term return on the Buderus. If this affects anyone's opinion/recommendation, let me know. Thanks.

lchmb

either

one other question, has either done a complete heat loss? Or are they sizing your new system based on the old?

CMadatMe

Vitola

Both good boilers. Agree with the others installation is most important. Best boiler and indirect combo in my book, Viessmann Vitola wiith Vitotronic 200 Control and Vitocell 300 tank.