Old School Installer???

Boiled_Over

Thanks for any help in advance. Recently had TT Solo 110/Smart 50 IDHW installed.  I did some research as to what was needed including manual J's (3) and looked at 6-7 contractors. I finally settled on one off TT's web site who said they were factory trained He then proceeded to install straight through piping on 3 zone system when factory spec system was requested. Installer didn't believe new school ideas of primary/secondary or the need for certain check valves, so initially didn't install them. I stopped the check 2 days later and forced them to come back and modify. The attached picture shows the manner he installed the closely space tees when he came back and what it is now. <strong>Does this look right?</strong>  It seems like he just took the easy way out after the factory told him p/s piping was needed.  The tees are 10 inches center to center, oriented towards each other and it is still operating like straight through flow with boiler pump and system pump with enough flow to cause a jolt water hammer with one zone opening. Taco 007 with Grundfos 58 3 speed on speed 2. On speed 1 the hammer stops , but, a low pressure is created dropping pressure to 10psi or below like the pumps are in series with one dragging . I did not have the fluid dynamic knowledge to stop him again even though I knew it might not be right. If anyone could look and perhaps give me some ammunition to make a case for fixing it, I would appreciate it. It cost too much to just let it go.

lchmb

look

on page 18 of the install manual. That is how I would want my boiler piped. And if that's what you agree'd to I would expect it...

http://www.triangletube.com/documents/1/Prestige_60_175_250_399_Manual.pdf

If you notice, your system has 1 circulator. page 18 show's 2 (figure 10)...If piped primary secondary. You can however pipe this system as a straight through system and as long as water flow is maintained have no issues (figure 11).

Boiled_Over

re:Look

This system is a Solo 110, does have an onboard Grundfos 58 3 speed pump in addition to the Taco 007 system system circulator and Taco 007 circulator for the IDHW independent supply line. What I need help with is the actual flow problem potential with the way the closely space tees are plumbed. That is the pipe under the left side of the boiler that is connecting the main supply and main return. The tees are oriented toward each other and spaced 10 inches apart.

lchmb

install manual

That's the thing I would point out. I would simply request he match the piping diagram in the book. I am assuming you had a contract which states the boiler will be installed to spec's from the manufacturer. If he feel's this is acceptable, ask him to bring in a tech rep to look at the install...

furnacefigher15

Piping is fine.

This is primary / secondary. It just looks different from the diagram, but the pump does not know the difference. The flow is dictated by the pump operation.



The requirement for primary secondary is so the boiler always has 100 percent flow regardless of system flow.



And, the way this is piped, 100 percent flow is achieved.



As long as the pumps are controlled correctly, all is good.



This would only be an issue with a multi - boiler system

furnacefigher15

Hard to tell

May have a missing check valve. Should be one on dhwh.



The zone valves act as flow controls, so those are ok.

icesailor

Piping:

No, it's not right. It may work because Hydronic is very forgiving but if it isn't working properly, its because it is piped wrong.

If there's a system pump inside the boiler, and the piping coming out the bottom of the boiler and going back, and the 10" piece of tubing is the "closely spaced tee", part those aren't closely spaced tees when you pipe through the run of the tees and not connect the secondary/system side through the branches.

The easiest fix for this is to install a hydraulic separator/low loss header to the boiler loop and connect the system side to the other side. Problem solved.

I have been under the impression that "closely spaced tees" meant 4 to 6 pipe diameters from the center-line of the tees. If the primary loop is 1" copper, then it is 4" to 6" center to center of the tees and 4 to 8 pipe diameters from a turn from the horizontal to the vertical or the opposite. That's to eliminate the turbulence in the water when going from laminar to circular.

With a low loss header, you don't need to worry. The LL header takes care of it.

How I understand it. I'm open to corrections.