need steam boiler / hot water combo suggestions

gypsy

Im having a boiler replaced soon and dont want the dunkirk i am being offered.  Im looking for suggestions.







I thought a combi boiler would work but i guess these do not work with steam radiators.







are there any condensing or combi boilers that do? 



if not does

anyone have any suggestions for a boiler hot water combo that will

provide about 100 btu steam heat and provide enough hot water to fill a 120 gallon-bathtub while being efficient and reliable?

kcopp

If it were my place..... and

Natural  gas were around I would prob. do a Weil-mclain eg series boiler and a Noritz tankless sized for your demand... prob NR-83.  Budget is the key. If you want to spend some more a Properly sized oil boiler Peerless, Weil or Smith w/ a conversion gas burner would be very nice. But really it is hard to say since I have not seen your project. The biggest thing... no matter what is getting the right installer....

lchmb

steam

There are no condensing steam boilers. Also you need to size the boiler based on your radiators not a heat loss. Each boiler will give you a steam rating and you'll need to size that to your connected load. I like the Smith with a power burner btw. But like Kcopp pointed out, the install is the biggest ticket item. Find someone who is familiar with steam, willing to size it properly and use the proper materials (black iron not copper)...

gypsy

gas conversion burner

would a carlin gas burner work with a peerless, weil, or smith?



i have a carlin that was installed on the current boiler a year ago and was thinking of selling it but would re use it if possible...



what info would be needed to say more definitively what would work best?



i dont have a choice on the installer unfortunately, but i may have some input into what gets put in...

gypsy

size it properly...

thats why im looking for suggestions...  i dont think what is being offered is the correct size.  I calculated heat loss and for radiation.  the btu i listed above is what i was told would be installed but is more than the btu's needed based on the radiators.  thanks for the heads up on iron instead of copper.  anything else i should look out for?

kcopp

Where you ..

located?

lchmb

suggestions

start reading...

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/364/Boilers/144/Boiler-Sizing

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/236/For-Homeowners/1490/How-to-have-a-boiler-replaced-without-getting-steamed

and to top that off..do yourself a favor and stop by the shop

http://www.heatinghelp.com/categories/Steam-Heating-Books/25/1

gypsy

location and more info...

massachusetts.



The cold water incoming temp is 45', the gpm of the 120 gallon tub is 11gpm.  i think the shower gpm might be irrelevant as we are tub people and the shower is only for rinsing, ...though it is used for rinsing so i guess that would affect the recover rate in a tank system...



there is also a washer and dishwasher and two sinks that might be run simultaneously.  the washer/dishwasher i dont know the gpm but they are low flow and have their own internal electric heating elements. 



fuel is natural gas.

gypsy

thank you for that second one...

the installer suggested removing more of the insulation on the pipes in the basement.  apparently a big no no especially considering that i now know that i dont have dry steam even with what insulation is left on the pipes down there! 



side note.... i may just keep that arcoliner tucked in a corner in case i need to heat this house with the windows open again!  loved the bit about the flu and heating.  a great grandfather of mine survived that flu.  an interesting part of the story you wont hear except from survivors is that on military bases where there were vaccines given to try and counter and protect from the spanish flu, those that were not vaccinated-because the vaccines ran out- are the ones who didnt get the 'flu' and survived.

Steamhead

An indirect water heater

which gets hot water from the bottom of a steam boiler, and runs it thru a heat exchanger in the tank, would be a good way to go. It can produce a LOT of hot water rather quickly. In your case you'd need a rather large indirect, or a pair of smaller ones.



Here's a pic of a Smith 8 series boiler with a Carlin EZ-Gas on it, and an indirect tank connected to it.. You should be able to use your EZ-Gas on a Smith 8, though I'd strongly suggest you get the air tube assembly that is matched to that boiler.

Charlie from wmass

What part of Mass are you in?

Not that it matters as I do service most of the the state. If you would like to contact me I can discus your options.

gypsy

rather large tank...

thank you for the info and the pics.  i may just call...  and good news about keeping the burner. 



this is what is getting me about a tank vs tankless.  if i can get enough hot water from a tankless... still wondering if i can or not... wouldnt it be smarter to get one of those instead of a big tank... and still wondering how big... so im not paying for heating all the water in that big tank for the 22 hours a day were not using all that hot water?

Charlie from wmass

The tanks cool at a very slow rate.

Less than half a degree per hour for the better quality tanks. This means if piped properly you are not heating the tank all day.

Robert_25

big indirect

I have an 80 gallon indirect in my home, and it easily handles our soaker tub (and whatever else may be running at the same time).  I did not notice any different in fuel consumption when I went from a 30 gal. to an 80, but it is nice not waiting for the tank to recover so I can fill the tub.

lchmb

tankless

would more than likely cost you more in the long run. And not give you the volume of hot water your looking for..

Jean-David Beyer

Heating indirect tanks.

I have an indirect tank thait is about 36 gallon size. I do not use much hot water. As far as I can tell it comes on about twice a day and runs for less than 10 minutes each time.  It might come on a third time at night, but I would not know that. This even if I take a shower, do a load of laundry (usually cold in summer, warm in winter), and do a couple of loads a week in the diswasher. The maker of the tank (W-M; probably actually Triangle Tube) claims it loses 1/2 degree per hour. It does not specify what the water temperature or the outside air temperature for this is, but it should give a general idea about its heat loss.



I do have 1/2" foam rubber insulation on all the pipes (to and from the boiler, cold water supply, and hot water out -- even the P/T valve for a foot or so.) and the pipes are arranged to trap heat loss. Basically if the pipe is warm, I insulated it.

ed wallace

need steam boiler

always get multiple quotes for a boiler replacement find someone who can and will do a quote based on the size of the radiators and connected load  make sure they will use black iron pipes not copper on the boiler you dont say where in MA. you are located or if its a gas or oil boiler

ed wallace

need steam boiler

always get multiple quotes for a boiler replacement find someone who can and will do a quote based on the size of the radiators and connected load  make sure they will use black iron pipes not copper on the boiler you dont say where in MA. you are located or if its a gas or oil boiler

gypsy

connected load?

Central Ma, and the fuel is NG.  what do you mean by sizing it based on connected load?

gypsy

thank you...

for the info!

ed wallace

need steam boiler

the connected load is all the pipes plus radiators in the house do not remove the asbestos insulation

kcopp

lot of...

guys here from central Mass.... did you try the find a contractor feature?

gypsy

connected load and boiler sizing

Connected load is all the pipes and the radiators?  So if the boiler that is going to be put in is based only on the radiators then the calculation wasnt correct? 



The boiler that is supposed to go in is a Dunkirk PSB 4D which i was told is rated at 283 sq ft of steam at AFUE 82% and this is based on a calculated heat load of 215 sq ft. 



I checked the radiators myself and they measure at 214.5 sq ft, so the piping was not taken into consideration.



Ive also just spoken with the manufacturers rep of the new hot water tank i was told is going to be put in instead of the previously mentioned on in order to up the hot water-a pure pro 41-and the rep was appalled that i was told this would be adequate...



so now im wondering about the boiler again too...

gypsy

do not remove the asbestos...

I just checked again and most of it is already removed.  there are only about 6 feet of pipe that still have the asbestos insulation, the rest are bare pipes and there are about 50+ feet of them(thats a guesstimate)