Moving a Steam Vent

EricNJ

It looks like the steam vent is in the wrong place on one of my radiators. Where should I start in moving it? Where would I get a plug for the current hole and what type? Also, I will need to drill the new hole but what type of female adaptor should I put in the radiator to accept the new vent? There is a spot on the radiator where it should be as you can see on the photo. Thanks!

Rod

Steam vent

Hi Eric- I must first ask, Is the radiator heating satisfactorily now? Is the vent working? If so I would leave it alone.

The boss (place) where the vent was supposed to needs an 1/8 pipe thread tapped in. Tapping cast iron is a *&**!!@**  so if you don't need to do it I wouldn't.

- Rod

EricNJ

Moving a Steam Vent

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm not sure how well it works as I have not been here in the winter yet. I'll take your advice and leave it for now. If it does not seem to be working maybe I'll move it. Also, what type of valve would you buy? I'm about to head to home depot and they have an adjustable for about $8.50. Should I be looking somewhere else?

Jean-David Beyer

Should I be looking somewhere else?

I am not a contractor, and do not have steam heat,

I, too, live in New Jersey. I suggest you avoid big box stores.



A friend of mine calls one of them Home Despot. She is someone who will replace a hot water heater herself, and then get a gas man to set it up and get the inspector in. I helped her with that one, and I was definitely not the gas expert.



However, I have bought plumbing supplies for various projects, including a photographic darkroom. I have found that big box stores generally have a very poor selection of plumbing supplies. For example, I have two vacuum breakers in my darkroom that need replacement about every 20 years (they get sticky inside), and no big box store has any, and they do not even know what they are.



After a year of owning a house, I wised up and went to a real plumbing supply house. My first one did not cater to homeowners, but hey would accept them. Their hours were something like 7AM until noon, I guess on the theory that plumbers would have picked up what they needed for the day before they went on the various jobs. I also noticed that they had better selection, better quality, and very frequently lower prices than the big box stores.

Rod

Steam vents

Hi Eric- I gather you are talking about the radiator vent. They come with fixed or as  variable orifices which produce different venting rates. Since your new to steam I would just wait until your system is in operation and learn about it a bit before you change anything.



If you don't have it already I would highly recommend you get a book called, " We Got Steam Heat!"

  http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/61/We-Got-Steam-Heat-A-Homeowners-Guide-to-Peaceful-Coexistence

which is available in the "Shop" section at the top of this page. It's written for the homeowner new to residential steam heating and is easy, humorous, reading and contains lots of diagrams and pictures. In a few evenings of reading your knowledge of steam heating will be light years ahead and that knowledge will save you a lot of money and give you a more comfortable heating system. My copies of the books have paid for themselves at least 100 times over. Read in the "Resources" and "Systems" sections at the top of the page as there is a lot of good info available there.

- Rod

EricNJ

Steam Vents

Yeah, its a great book. Thank god I read it before they put in my new boiler. The new boiler is up and running now and most of my radiator vents were stuck closed or open. My kitchen was like a sauna full of steam after about 30 minutes. The date engraved on that radiator vent is 1917. Just wondering if one brand is better than most.

Rod

Steam Vents

Great!  You already have "the book"!  For radiator vents I like Vent Rite #1s myself. Howver they are a bit expensive and hard to get in some pats of the U.S.

 Hoffman 1A s would probably be your best bet. They are well built vents and are adjustable. You can get them at Pex Supply  on the internet. http://www.pexsupply.com/

Hoffman 1A s

 http://www.pexsupply.com/Hoffman-401422-1A-1-8-Adjustable-Angle-Steam-Radiator-Air-Valve-3516000-p

Stay away from Heat Timer Vari Vents as they are very fast and too aggressive and can cause you problems. They are beneficial in just some situations.

You want to slowly vent your radiators. The phrase often quoted is: "Vent your mains quickly and your radiators slowly!" Speaking of Mains - Were your Main Vents renewed?

You can't have too much Main Venting! For a good article on main venting use this link :   http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/ This is the website of a very experienced steam pro, Gerry Gill, who is in Cleveland. Look around his website as he has a lot of good info on steam heating. While I think of it you can sometimes revive (clean) your radiator vents by boiling them in white vinegar,

- Rod

crash2009

Venting

The vents that you get for $8.50 are usually pretty crappy.  I made that mistake a long time ago.  I am just letting you know so so don't spend all this winter trying to make them work, like you want them to, then throwing them away next summer.

The two brands mentioned above Hoffman 1A, and Ventrite #1 are both good quality.  The Hoffman 1A is a little tricky to adjust but it can be overcome.  Ventrite #1 works right out of the box with no messing around. 

Another brand, although not adjustable, is Gorton.  For radiators Gorton makes five different sizes.  You need to do a little math to figure out what size goes where, but after that, they are flawless and silent.  Gorton also makes some great main vents.  The Gorton 1, and the Gorton 2.  a.k.a. G1 and G2 

If you are thinking about changing the vents, perhaps you should get the venting handbook. http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Steam-Heating-Books/25/146/Balancing-Steam-Systems-Using-a-Vent-Capacity-Chart-by-Gerry-Gill-and-Steve-Pajek  The handbook lists all the major manufacturers and the specs for everything.  Another good tool to have is JPF's venting spreadsheet.  http://www.ypgmedia.com/heatinghelp/  The spreadsheet is very helpful if you decide to go with the Gorton brand. 

If you need help with anything, there is always someone hangin out at Strictly Steam.      

EricNJ

Main Vent

Thanks for all of the help everyone!

I am not sure when the main vent was replaced but it did have steam coming out of it when the system was running and it was hissing a little. It looks like I need to replace it with a valve with female threads. I assume the Gorton 1 3/4 will do the trick? Any thoughts?

Rod

Main Vents

Hi- Do you have only one steam main?    If you could tell us the length and the pipe size of your main (s) we can calculate for you the amount of main venting capacity you need.

The Main Vent in the picture looks like a Hoffman #75 so you would want to replace it with probably one  Gorton #2

.

Venting Capacity

3 ea. Gorton #1 = 1 ea. Gorton # 2

2 ea. Hoffman #75 = 1 ea. Gorton # 2

You can't go wrong with lots of main venting.

- Rod

Steamhead

How long is the main

and what pipe size is it?



For that radiator- yes, I'd have the vent moved. In its current location it has steam coming directly at it instead if being baffled by the radiator section as it would be if mounted lower. This can shorten the life of the vent- almost every steam rad vent I see mounted like yours is leaking.

EricNJ

Main Pipe Size

The main is about 66 feet and I believe its a 2 inch pipe. There is another main that heads the other direction without a vent that loops around right back to the boiler and is about 1/2 the length of the main running around the other side of the basement.

Steamhead

Vent that long main

with a Gorton #2.



The shorter main would take a Gorton #1, but you'd have to drill and tap for it, and if the insulation is asbestos it would have to be professionally removed first.

EricNJ

Gorton #2

Does the Gorton #2 only come in male 1/2? Seems thats all I can find. I'm trying to replace my vent rite #75 that is attached using the female 1/2 (I think). I was hoping to find, for ease of installation, for a Gorton #2 that will fit that too.  if not what kind of adaptor should I get?

crash2009

It depends

When you remove the vent, one of two things is gonna happen.  Either the nipple will come out of the reducer or the vent will come off the nipple.  If the vent comes off the nipple, thats OK. Just install a coupler then the Gorton 2.  Don't mess up the threads on the nipple or this job will get bigger than you want it to be.



If the nipple comes out of the reducer, thats even better.  Install a new nipple, a coupler, then the new vent.

EricNJ

Main steam vent

Thanks for the info! When I took off the vent it came off the nipple. The nipple is pretty stuck in the reducer so I'm going to leave it alone. Is there a certain name or size cupler I should get? Looks like it's going to have to be a female to male and I guess 3/4 to screw on to the nipple then a female 1/2 for the gorton 2. Does that sound about right?

crash2009

Get it up high

The Ventrite is 1/2' female on the inside and 3/4" male on the outside.  That makes your existing nipple 1/2".  The Gorton is 1/2" as well.  You need a 1/2" by 1/2" coupler, the coupler is female on both ends. 



The Gorton 2 is 6 and 3/8 inches tall.  It would be nice if you could get it up as high as you can.  You may want to add another nipple and coupler to get it up close to the floor boards.  existing nipple/coupler/2,3or4"nipple/coupler/Gorton 2



Maybe someone else has a better idea? 

EricNJ

I have a stupid question

Thanks for the post. Very helpful. I have one last stupid question. What type of fittings should I use? Brass, galvanized or black iron?

Steamhead

Black iron

is fine.

crash2009

There's no such thing as a stupid question

Every once and a while, there is a stupid answer.  As a matter of fact, I am questioning mine.  Here is my disclaimer.



That Ventrite is is installed in probably the worst spot possible.  It's location likely contributed to its failure.  The same fate is likely in store for the new Gorton.  I'll tell ya whats going on inside that main.  The steam is flying down that main towards the vent, It is carrying the condensate like a tidal wave, and smashing into the vent.  This action shortens the life of the vent.  I suggested that you get the new vent up as high as possible to reduce the constant barrage of tidal waves.  Getting it up high may not be enough.  Ideally, it should be 15" back from the end of the main.  My first suggestion should be considered a "get buy" at best.  Another, albeit, "get buy" would be to build an antler arrangement.  This would involve removing the reducer from the elbow.  You would then build the antler the same size as the reducer.  The antler would rise up about 6", and go back from the end of the main about 15".  Then you install your Gorton at the end of the 15".



Oh yea, use Black iron.

Rod

Antler

Hi- As Crash said "there is no such thing as a stupid question!" Asking questions is how we all learn.  On the antler for the vent- I've attached an excellent drawing by Brad White

- Rod

EricNJ

Diff Vent sizes?

You guys are great and have helped me so much, I cant thank you all enough. And you guessed it, I have another question. My new vents for the radiators came today and most went in without a hitch but 2 of them dont fit at all. The vents seem to be too big. Is there a smaller thread than 1/8?

Rod

Radiator Vent Thread

Hi-   For radiator vents - normally  1/8 inch pipe thread is the standard. What I would do first is take one of the vents that fit ok  (Mark it "GOOD" so you don't get them mixed up!) and place it against the thread of the questionable one and see if they look the same.

 If so then try the good vent in the radiator vent hole where you were trying to fit the problem vent.  If the good vent goes in the hole easily then the problem is the questionable vent's threads. If the good vent doesn't go in the hole then the problem is with the hole's threads. If there is a thread problem this can usually be straightened out  by using a 1/8 pipe tap.

.

While 1/8 pipe is the standard thread size, some model vents may be offered with an optional with a larger 1/4 thread and since other than the thread size, they look exactly the same they may have been mixed up in the parts bins.

 There are a couple of other possibilities though they are fairly rare. If you run into some thing different that doesn't fit the above instructions, let us know what it is and we can take it from there.

- Rod

EricNJ

Sizing up the threads

After checking the new vs the old, the old threads look similar to the new towards the end of the thread  (farthest from the radiator when screwed in). The two that are giving me trouble have vents in them from 1917 (date on the vent). Sounds like a pipe tap is in store for me. Where would I get a good pipe tap for 1/8th? I checked home depot and lowes yesterday because I had a feeling that would come up but they didn't have one.

Another issue is a pin hole I have in one of the radiators. What is the best fix for that? Now that I have finally got all the vents to stop singing in stereo all I can hear is the whistle of that hole as my precious steam escapes.

EricNJ

Radiator Leak

Here is a picture of the leak

Rod

1/8 inch pipe tap

Hi- Actually any good industrial hardware store or plumbing supply store should an 1/8 inch x 27 NPT pipe tap.   Mcmaster Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/#    on the internet has them and part number is 2525A169. Type that number in the find window and that should take you right to it.

Check with your local plumbing supply first. The McMaster Carr's taps  are high quality and therefore not cheap. Since you are only doing a  couple of already cut holes a "cheapie" tap should work okay as long as you take your time doing the tapping. Turn it in just a bit and then back it out. Keep repeating that until you have the threaded hole completely tapped.



Hole in Radiator-  Ideally you would drill and saw out the old plug and then replace it with a new one. Why it is rather " mickey mouse",what you might do is get some JB Weld           http://jbweld.net/products/index.php   and fill the hole. Use a wire brush or sand paper /emory cloth or  something like a rifle bore brush to clean the area where you are placing the filler. I would use masking tapes to mask oiff the area around the hole where you don't want epoxy on. Also tape some plastic sheeting to catch any spills that might happen. JB Weld can be found in most autoparts stores,  After it has hardened you can sand it a bit (After it cures it is very hard so do any shaping before it hardens!) and paint it to match the radiator.  JB Weld is used in high heat situations and since the radiator operates at less than 2 PSI there won't be a problem with pressure. Good cleaning hole area before hand is the key to a satisfactory repair.

- Rod

EricNJ

Antler

I dont know what I would do without your guys help! It would be cold in here!

When building the antler I see in the drawing there is a union. How important is that? Is that a dielectirc union? What if I used black iron for the antler and screwed the Gorton 2 into the black iron? One more, teflon tape or pipe tread goop (cant remember the name) when building the antler?

EricNJ

Antler

I dont know what I would do without your guys help! It would be cold in here!

When building the antler I see in the drawing there is a union. How important is that? Is that a dielectirc union? What if I used black iron for the antler and screwed the Gorton 2 into the black iron? One more, teflon tape or pipe tread goop (cant remember the name) when building the antler?

EricNJ

Reducer for Antler

The reducer is not budging. How important is it to get the reducer out? Would it be ok to build the antler with 1/2 inch pipe?

Rod

Mounting an antler.

According to Gerry Gill's and Steve Pajek's excellent venting chart, a half inch pipe, venting capacity wise, will support up to two Gorton #2s so you should b okay using 1/2 pipe.

      To seal the pipe fitting - I would use Teflon tape. Start the wrapping 1/8 inch  back from the end of the pipe as that way bits of tape won't get into the pipe.

     Union- This is just an ordinary pipe union.  While the union isn't absolutely necessary, the idea of using a union is to be able to build the antler on a bench and install it on the steam main using just one fitting. This is really beneficial when you are tight for space and don't room for wrenches up between the floor joists. The union also makes it easy to remove for servicing if necessary.

     You want to mount the antler so it faces "uphill" on the steam main (or return) as this will give the antler slope so that any water getting into the piping will drain out.

- Rod

EricNJ

Thanks!

Fantastic, thanks for the info!