Upgrade

KBP&H_3

Customer calls you and wants to spend $3000.00 to upgrade his heat situation,    He has a 8 year old propane 87% eff direct vent boiler w/ indirect and hot water baseboard. House is 8 years old, better construction w/ R38 attic, etc. Also has outdoor reset via Tekmar.   He pre buys the propane for the lowest price.      He asked about the following:  air to air heat exchanger, buffer tank, replace w/ mod con with some extra $, pellet stove,  zone synching,   change controls to allow more post purging,  solar hot water w/ some extra $ and rebates.       Any ideas    Heat loss is 80,000 btu, about 6500 degree days.

Steamhead

First do a heat loss

to see if the boiler is oversized. Also look for ways to tighten the house's envelope. 

KBP&H_3

Continuing

The boiler has an doe output of 87000 btu. The next smaller boiler has an output of 61,000 btu.   A blower door test was done and ach is 4.  The boiler has 6 zones ( largest 36000, smallest 7,000)  Total load with all baseboard  zones would be 89,000.

1- Would a zone synch help with the short cycle of the smaller zones?

2- Run everything thru a buffer tank w/ reset ?

3- Control ach with a separate air exchanger?

4- Go to the smaller boiler and and hope design and separate zones work out?



Any other ideas?



After 8 years you tell him there is nothing new to offer?

LarryC

Ask the home owner questions.

Why does he want to spend the money? 



What is he looking for?

1)  Lower operating costs?

2)  More comfort in specific rooms?

3)  Quieter operation?

4)  Smaller environmental footprint?

5)  Larger tax deduction?

6)  Wants to add eco-bling?

7)  The pleasure of living in a construction zone?

8)  Does he want increased system reliability or energy independence?



I think you need to determine what his end goal is.

icesailor

Upgrade:

In my opinion, your customer will never in his lifetime, pay for the upgrades with any fuel savings.

But that's my opinion. And not worth much

KBP&H_3

Lower operating costs

The propane system uses1500 gal ( for heat + 200 hot water) = 1700 gal avg per year X $2..60-3.00 per gal propane = $4420.00 at least per year, figuring a 10 year return at todays prices - 10 years would equal about $45,000.00,   There is nothing we can do to cut usage 7%?  

CMadatMe

Not Much

For that 3k. Boiler is already on outdoor reset. Anything you do with zoning is going to provide a better comfort level with minimal fuel payback. Buffer tank is just a place to park btu's to keep the boiler from short cycling on those micro zones. Again minimal if any payback.



How is this zoned? Could upgrade with Alpha pumps to provide some electrical savings. If zone valves maybe Taco Zone Sentry's again for some electrical savings.

lchmb

smaller boiler...

I dont believe I would down size the boiler since your already below design temp now, but how about a modulating boiler (if smaller is an option this may be another thought) they have a smaller volume and can modulate down for the smaller loads...You could also look into any goverment programs to see if he gets anything for energy star rating..

LarryC

Elusive 7% savings

Set back thermostats.

More insulation around rim joists and roof.

Thermal imaging to find any under insulated areas.

External combustion air for furnace.

Reducing air infiltration while keeping an eye on  indoor air quality.

Replacement windows and / or doors.

Change toilets over to a grey water collection system.

Reduce domestic water heater tank temp to no lower than 140F.