Old pipes

targetman

I wanted to get some thoughts on this. I got the call yesterday to go look at some leaking pipes.  I'm told by the office that they were told it's not something that I can fix on the spot.  They just want me to get a materials list together.  Keep in mind that I'm a HVAC service tech.  Not a plumbers or fitter.  The building is a historic landmark which is owned by the County.  It is now apartments for the elderly.  When I arrived at the site, the maintenance guy lets me into one of the first floor apartments.  The bulkhead that was conceiling the chilled/hot water pipes was water stained. There was an old access panel which was cut into the bulkhead.  We removed the panel and found that the pipes were in bad shape.  The piece of armaflex was cut previously.  We think it's copper pipe but it's hard to tell.  The armaflex insulation is hardened to the pipe.  I followed the bulkhead to a closet where the air handler sits.  The exposed pipes in the closet are just as bad and wet.  Now am I seeing condensate from the pipes because the armaflex insulaation is shot, or are the pipes starting to seep through.

Al Letellier_21

piping issues

Looks to me from your photos that your customer has a major problem on there hands and you are only seeing a very little bit of it. If the piping is that bad, a major water leak is not too far distant and patching is no longer an issue. You need to step back and get your client to make some serious decisions about the state of the piping system. Chilled water piping insulated with armaflex and run in tight concealed spaces with no accomodations for ventilating and drying of condensate is creating a world you don't want to enter without being totally prepared, Mold is certainly a big possibililty here and you need to proceed with extreme caution. Remember the old adage that he who touches it last owns it....be careful.!!!

icesailor

Old pipes and Armaflex:

Many years ago, I read an article in a professional trade magazine like Contractor reporting serious problems with Armaflex, moisture and copper tubing. The worst being buried. That over time, this corrosion would destroy copper tube. I think the article may have been about AC lines. I told a few guys about the article and they acted like I had three heads. The issue never gained traction. But I find copper tube covered with armaflex that is so corroded from something in the armaflex and water that it is impossible to clean the pipe enough to get a proper solder joint.

I don't do that type of work but as I remember, chilled water lines should be covered with fiberglass with a vapor barrier covering to make it so that no moisture in confined spaces gets to the lines. Even if the armaflex isn't tight enough, if it isn't thick enough in the wall, it may sweat. When the temperature and the dew-point coincide, you get condensation. Cooler air will hold less moisture than warmer air. When you drop the temperature of warm, moist air, you get fog, clouds or condensation. Like rain. I've never seen old armaflex that hadn't shrunk an inch or so on each 6' length letting water inside the covering between the pipe and insulation.

In my opinion, it was a mistake to cover the pipes with armaflex. They should have been covered with fiberglass with a vapor barrier covering with the proper plastic/insulated fittings covering.