Should a steam boiler ever get to this point?

ChrisJ

These are pictures of my leaking Burnham V8.  I'm just curious if this kind of build up happens over a period of 5-8 years on a well maintained boiler or if this is a clear sign of neglect. 

It certainly explains why my hot water coil worked so bad!



If I do annual blowdowns under pressure and ensure I have no leaks on the new system will it still crud up like this?

lchmb

water test

Ever thought about a water filter? It is possible that when this boiler was installed there was still a lot of sediment left in the system and made it's way back to your new boiler. I would definately make sure to put some cleaner into your system prior to swapping the boiler and run it for a while to get everything back to the old boiler. If it's to late for that you could add cleaner, and then flush out the mud leg until thing's come back clear..

curious, were you flushing the lwco weekly (or was it digital?)  or just a yearly burner service on this system?

ChrisJ

leaks

Hi ichmb,



I bought the house and discovered many leaks through the system. I have no idea what the previous maintenance was. The few times I ran the system I blew the LWCO down once a week. Once the heating season was over the boiler was only maintaining my domestic hot water and I noticed I continued to loose water. I found three bad leaks and repaired them and then found the block was leaking.



With the new boiler I am installing king valves as well as a valve in the condensate return and of course a drain. This should allow me to drain any garbage out before it returns to the new boiler.



The history of this V8 is it was installed in 2003 then had the block replaced in 2006 so clearly the leaks were never found or repaired.



I was curious if this is normal or obvious evidence of abuse and neglect.

lchmb

I would

I would lean to the neglect side.

crash2009

Looks pretty rusty

There was a lot of fresh water added to the boiler when it had leaks, perhaps the fresh water was never de-oxygenated.  Leaky vents can cause too much fresh water too.



Do you have a water softener?  Is the boiler water feed plumbed after the softener?



Is your city water too soft?



You were saying, when you first arrived here, that that house has had a new boiler every 6 years.  When I read that, I though you were due for another, but I didn't say anything. I was hoping for the best for you. 



I wonder if it was the leaks or just bad water that caused the re-curring failures.

ChrisJ

No water softner

I have city water and I don't know how it tests but it doesn't taste too bad.  Some chlorine obviously other than that nothing terrible.

The records show the first V8 block leaked in only 3 years.  This one lasted 5 years.



Once I have the EG-45 installed is there an easy way to test the boiler water and compensate for anything necessary?  Also when I skim the new boiler are there any chemicals that help removed the oil?

crash2009

Water testing

Call your water supplier or find a test kit.  Here is a small thread discussing water quality.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/132440/water-treatment-chemicals#p1203907

Dave in QCA

Leaky System and Neglect

The conditions shown in the pictures are not surprising for a system that was losing condensate and therefor also having excessive amounts of makeup water without any other remedial actions such as added blowdowns and testing the boiler water to determine and control the amount of dissolved solids and chlorides in the water.  As the dissolved solids (probably mostly lime) and the chloride levels went higher and higher, it probably caused the premature failure of the block, which I am going to assume is a leak located at or above the steam line.  As this leak started to occur, more steam was lost and the makeup increased, further compounding the horrible water conditions the boiler was being subjected to.   With all of the above conditions going on, which I believe are what you have described, the conditions shown in the photos of the boiler are pretty much what one would expect.



Once you correct all of the leaks in the system, you should be in much better condition.  I would also recommend installing a water meter on your feed line so you know exactly what is going on with your make up water situation.



Remember, makeup water that occurs as a result of the normal operation of your system is bad.  This make up should be very low.   However, makeup water that occurs as a result of blowdown is just fine because in this case, you are taking water out of the system along with the dissolved minerals.  Leaking steam or condensate leaves the minerals in the boiler.  Just remember when fresh water is added to a boiler it should be during the time when the boiler will run soon.  This is important to drive off dissolved oxygen, which when present, excellerates rusting.

ChrisJ

water report

Ok, here is a water report for my area from the water companies website. Now of course this isn't necessarily what I'd find from my tap but I'd think it gives a basic idea.

ChrisJ

What to test?

I want to get my water tested.  Should I do a "makeup water" test or run the boiler for a while and do a "steam boiler water test" ?



$75-$95 for a water test is more than worth it to me if it means not having a block rott out.

Ron Jr._3

I think lchmb is right

I'll never forget the time I replaced a steam boiler with an existing loop of baseboard in the basement . Forgot to flush out the baseboard piping and could not believe how filthy the boiler got in a few seconds  .



Same thing happens ( but slower ) when a new boiler is installed and noone cleans the returns . I'll have to say your boiler looked pretty bad though . We use 8-Way by Rectoseal to flush out a new steam install  . Is there a shut-off valve and drain on the return pipe ? It's really a must to purge all that crap out before it gets back in the boiler . I'd also recommend a small water meter to monitor how much water goes back in the system .    

ChrisJ

Ron Jr

Hi Ron,

I'm installing king valves as well as a return valve and drain.  I am curious though how exactly to waste all of the return with the system steaming?  Do I simply use makeup water to keep my water level up?



I am not installing a water meter as I am not installing an auto feeder. 

Ron Jr._3

Hey Chris

Yes , you want to dump all that return water when the boiler is steaming . We keep the return valve shut and attach a washing machine hose to the drain and watch it puke into a bucket . We let the mild cleaner work it's way through the whole system . It'll take a while , but eventually you'll have filthy water coming out of the hose . We know we're done when steam is shooting out of the hose too . The hose get's extremely hot so we make sure to wear heavy gloves when handling it .



The water meter was just to keep track of how much you feed into the boiler . Any type of leak and adding excessive water will kill any steamer prematurely . Burnham has a guide of what's excessive and we floow that for other brands of boilers too .

ChrisJ

water meter

Just seemed a bit expensive when I can probably keep an eye on it my self.  Perhaps I'll install one at a later date.



The cleaner you are talking about,  is this MEX?



I'm not sure if you saw my question at the bottom of the thread.  I am considering getting the water tested but am not sure if I should bother?  Moneys tight right now and I can squeak the $75 out if I have to but it would be easier if I can avoid it.

Ron Jr._3

Are you on well water ?

I highly doubt it's the quality of the water coming in . Unless you have severe problems at the sinks and showers too .



We use mild , liquid cleaners . Easier to pour into a system . Never used mex yet , but I'm sure all cleaners work pretty good .



I think adding water once a month during the heating season is the norm . Give or take a week . Anything more and I'd look around for leaks . Good luck with the new system Chris !



Oops , didn't see you are on city water . I doubt even more it's the water itself .

ChrisJ

No problems

Even our toilet tanks stay clean which surprises me.  At our last place the tanks had a brown film on them after a few months.