venting risers

ChrisJ

I did a quick search and was unable to find info on this.

Is there an easy way to vent risers going from the 1st floor to the 2nd floor? Is there a way to simply remove the valve stem and cap and adapt it to an 1/8" connection for a vent without removing the valve housing?



Or am I simply being way too extreme with my venting at this point?  My assumption is venting those 1 1/4" risers fast is just as important as venting the mains fast.

Steamhead

Do these risers

only feed rads on the second floor?



If so, they don't need vents.

crash2009

Yea too extreme

  Get the boiler in first and see how it runs the system.  Vent the mains well.  The rest of the system just might hit a home run all by itself.  

 

ChrisJ

ok

I started installing Hoffman 1As on everything and started wondering about it.



Not sure if its going to bite me later on, but I set the vents on the 2nd floor a hair faster than the 1st floor. I guess the only way to find out is to wait and see what happens.



steamhead, yea they only feed a single radiator each.

crash2009

Venting rads

How many rads do you have?  Are they all on one main?

crash2009

Dave

wrote something about his experience with Hoff 1a's.  He figured out a way to set them correctly.  I'll see if I can find it for you.

ChrisJ

two mains

I have a 29' 2" main and a 11' 2" main.



3 rads @ a total of 135 sqft of EDR are on the 11' main. 225sqft of EDR is on the 29' main.



I would love to know a trick to setting the Hoff 1As accurately. So far I have been setting most of them on the 1st floor to #2 and then messing with it and blowing through it with my mouth to get them about the same. 2nd floor I am going with #3 on most except my bedroom is on #2 as I like a cool room.



I have to assume / hope there is a better way than blowing through them with your mouth to compare settings.

crash2009

Here is the thread I was looking for

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/136623/Radiator-air-vent-observations#p1232960



You gotta take em apart, and see how the adjustment works.

crash2009

Main one = 3 rads

Main two = how many rads?

ChrisJ

29' main

Has 7 rads.

ChrisJ

Oh I know that

First thing I did was take the vents apart. Thats just my nature.



This is also what led me to adjusting them by blowing into them and trying to get them the same with them set to the same number.



If you try and keep the collar centered as best you can they seem to produce somewhat reliable results. Its just a shame such a quality valve has such a poorly designed adjustment. Has the Hoffman 1A always had this design or has it become sloppy over the years?

crash2009

Don't know

I did't like the one I had so I replaced it with gorton or ventrite.  Then I read Daves thread.  I might try the Hoff again.  I love the 75 though.

crash2009

When you pipe the boiler

will the 27 foot main be the first or second system riser?

ChrisJ

Brands

I had a mixed mess of vents throughout here. I think most of the ones I removed are from a company called LDR or something and of course the four heat-timer vari-vents.



The Hoffman 1A's seem like MUCH higher quality than any of the vents I removed. The only complaint I have is the 1A's cheesy adjustment but I can work with that. I'm using several Gorton #1s to vent my mains.



The funny thing is the Heat-Timer vari-vents feel like a very high quality vent in hand. Its a shame they vent so fast even on the lowest setting.

ChrisJ

the 29' main

has a mix of 1st floor and 2nd floor rads on it. 4 rads on the 1st floor and 3 on the 2nd floor. I currently have two Gorton #1s on it but have it in the back of my mind to consider bumping that up a bit.



Oh I'm sorry I misread what you said. the 29' main should end up being the 2nd riser from the header, meaning closest to the equalizer.

crash2009

And the 11 foot main

only goes to 1st floor radiators.  Correct?

ChrisJ

False

11' main has a 60 sqft rad on 1st floor but a 28 sqft and a 50 sqft on 2nd floor.



29' has a 52, 18, and two 30's on first floor. A 47 and two 26 sqft rads on 2nd floor.



Phew, I hope my numbers came out right. Going from memory here

crash2009

Here is what I got so far

If we number the radiators on the 26 foot main 1,2,3,4,5,6,7



And number the radiators on the 11 foot main 1,2,3



Which numbers of each main go to the second floor?

ChrisJ

Here ya go

Although I'm curious how my 29' main went to a 27 and then a 26

crash2009

I'll be back

Its my mom, I have to take this call 30 min

crash2009

Venting Handbook

What you gotta do now is figure out how much air you have in the mains.  Then figure out how much main venting you need to get that air out fast.  Example: Lets say your boiler is gonna run for 18 minutes then shut off for an hour.  You want to get the steam down the pipe in the same amount of time as as if there was no main vent at all,,,same as an open 3/4"hole.  Run the boiler with the main vent removed and see how long it takes for the steam to get there.  Should be about 3 or 4 minutes.  Then keep adding gorton 2's until the gorton 2's vent at the same speed as an open hole.  Probably the 11' main will fill first and fill fast, maybe a minute.  Then the big main will fill, probably another 3 minutes.  You should have the main vents hot in 4 minutes.  That leaves you 14 minutes to fill the rads or satisfy the thermostat.  Whatever you put on the short main you will need three times the venting for the long one.

That covers the mains, and gets the steam to the entrance of each riser in both mains, for all the radiators, at the same time.  Next you have to convince the steam to come up the riser.  The steam will favor 1,2,and 3 on the 11' main so you will set the Hoffmans at a lower setting.  1,2, and 3 of the 29' main will likely be favored next, set those at less than 1/2.  4 and 5 on the 29' I'd set them about 3/4.  6 and 7 wide open.



Anyway thats what I'd do.  If that didn't work for me, I would read the venting handbook, and do the math.  Pick an amount of time I want the rads hot and figure out what setting I need to get the time limit I want.



Hope this helped! 

ChrisJ

Donno

The reason I set most to #2 on the valve is because I'm trying to follow the rule of venting rads slowly.

As you may know the Hoffman 1A wide open vents pretty fast.  I figured it was best to start slow and over time open them up and keep an eye on how things behave.

crash2009

Pretty fast compared to what?

Hoffman 1A compared to itself, setting 6 is pretty fast.  Compared to Heat-timer, Gorton D, or Maid-OMist D, the Hoffman 1A is pretty slow.

ChrisJ

fast

compared to other vents for normal use like the Hoffman 40, Gorton 4, 5 and I think its about the same as a Gorton 6.

ChrisJ

venting

Crash,



I spent some time tonight and calculated the amount of air in all pipes and radiators.  Once I had this I used the venting capacity charts from Gerry Gill and Steve Pajek to set all of the Hoffman 1As.  Of course as everyone knows its hard to get the Hoffman 1A exact but I did my best.  I'm wondering if a round jig could be made up to hold the collar centered while you tighten down the top.



All of my large radiators required the 1A wide open.  most of the others are either on #4 or #3.  I used the 2oz section because the 1A doesn't vent fast enough for my larger radiators at 1oz.  I think at this point the only thing I can do is wait until I can fire the system up and then do some fine tuning if necessary.



When I pipe my header,  is it prefered to have the long main before, or after the short main or is it moot?

crash2009

Preferred ?

I am not sure.  I can give you my opinion, but that's about it.  I suppose that if the mains and rads are vented properly, it really shouldn't matter which main is first.  On the other hand, I have this sneaky suspicion that the main with the most EDR, or most preferred EDR, should be first.  Maybe the thermostat should be considered.



Where is your thermostat installed?   11-1,2,3 or 29-1,2,3,4,5,6,7.  Between which 2 rads?

ChrisJ

t-stat

The thermostat is in the same room as 29-2, however 11-2 is also sort of in the same area but further away.



11-2 is in our livingroom and 29-2 is in the diningroom, both are connected. I wish I knew the way it was originally connected, however when I pulled the header apart I noticed the fittings were marked "J.P. WARD" I thought this was interesting as WARD was founded in 1924. My house is said to have been build in 1920 I then noticed all of the other fittings are completely different and much cruder looking.



The header was obviously done later so I have no way of knowing what the original setup was or if it even had a header.

crash2009

Thermostat location

 didn't do anything for me.  I am back to "I don't know" or "It doesn't matter"