Efficiency

James Day_2

How much more efficient would you say a hydro air set up with a three pass oil boiler and a Indirect water heater  would be over a standard oil hot air furnace (over sized with an electric water heater?  Does anyone have any real experience in savings

TonyS

I would guess

it would be close. But if you used one of the new heat pump water heaters you would still be less up front and operating cost would be better. But you would have to be sure the water heater could supply your demand.

James Day_2

Savings

Forgot to add that the boiler will have outdoor reset. Is it realistic in a situation like this to save 15 to 20% by going to a hydro air vs an oversized schorched air.

Greg Maxwell

Forced Air

Where are you located

Robert O'Brien

Eff

I doubt you would see much,the furnace has almost no idle loss and a boiler even with ODR will. Depending on electric rates,the indirect could save quite a bit,here on LI it's about 22c Kwh,so even at $3.50/gallon oil is cheap compared to that.

A HW AQ2000 is a sweet setup for hydroair,ODR and the ability to post purge the boiler as well as a bunch of other stuff

James Day_2

Job. Is located in new jersey. House is 2900 sq ft. Hot air furnace is 175,000 btu.

Job. Is located in new jersey. House is 2900 sq ft. Hot air furnace is 175,000 btu. 80 gallon electric hot water heater. Plan would Be to install viessmann vitorond with variable speed air handler And 50 gallon indirect. Possible baseboard loop in basement. Have not done heat loss yet but figure it will be around 90000 btu.

Greg Maxwell

Warm Air

Definately go with a hydronic system, and also, look into a good heat pump. You will see a big savings using that in the soulder seasons.

Robert O'Brien

You should

see 20% out of that not to mention the electrical savings from dumping that 80g Kwh eater. How about a Vitodens on propane with an oversized coil?

CMadatMe

Could be considerable

Is there a cooling load here? Is this a single zone system? Properly sizing is going to eat up that 20% and spit out 30% easily.



By the way for you and Bob. Got a chance to see the new Vitodens 100 Combi on paper today, Pretty slick in the way it's being done.

James Day_2

vitodens

Propane in his area is a little high.  I thought about it.  The Vitorond with the built in Injector and a Outdoor Reset Control I think in this application will beat out the Vitodens.  I am already oversizing the hw coil to take 160deg water at design day for efficiency and comfort. 

Mark Eatherton

I wouldn't put a boiler in...

Crunch the numbers on a good air source heat pump. You might be amazed at what they can save.



With the new variable speed compressors they have now, they are just like a mod con boiler, except that they are up to 400% efficient, but never less than 200% efficient.



Never ever thought I'd be saying that, but if you look at it, it will make monetary sense. Look at Daikin. Quite the compressor. They call it a swing compressor.



ME

Steamhead

Ahhh, but

going with a boiler will let you eventually move your heat distribution off the ductwork, to panel rads, baseboard etc. This will not only let you keep the house at a lower temperature, since you won't have moving air making you feel cooler, but will reduce the amount of air infiltration/exfiltration that you have to make up for.



Comfort equals efficiency, and in this respect, hydronic and steam heat win every time.

James Day_2

Vitodens

hey Bob do you think the Vitodens 200 on propane would be cheaper on fuel than a vitorond?

TonyS

I cant believe my eyes

Is someone impersonating Mark? But I have to agree with you!

I installed a Comfort  Star inverter hp mini split in my shop 6 weeks ago 12000 btu.

Shop is 2400 square ft with r-20 walls and r-38 ceiling 13 ft high and 3 10x10 r-17 doors.

No windows. HVAC calc said 7800 btus. I couldnt believe it so I still went with the 12000 model instead of the 9000.

The unit looks like a toy sitting 11 ft in the air but the shop stayed at exactly 70 degrees and beautifully dehumidified even though we had over a week of 100 degree weather and nothing below 85. My normal electric bill is 35 bucks without a/c for the month of july it went to 56 bucks. thats 21 dollars. I am really impressed.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

I'm with ME

The Daikin Altherma provides you with an inverter-drive air-to-water heat pump with COP's above 4.0 if the installer designs the system properly. DHW, heating & cooling with the ability to tie in solar thermal.



Got oil and feel like you don't have any alternatives except for propane? Geothermal costs scare you off? Don't like the idea of using traditional heat pump technology that requires electric resistance (toaster) after temps outdoors fall below 40F?



Inverter-driven heat pumps don't need electric back- up heat (no toasters!) and will provide adequate heating down to temps below 0F if the installer designs the system properly. Mini-splits in air-to-air or air-to-water with SEER, EER, COP, & COP that rival the best geothermal efficiencies are readily available.



As Mark noted, never thought I'd ever be promoting heat pumps over hi-eff boilers and/or gas furnaces, but inverter-drive drove me to that position once I crunched the numbers for operating costs and ROI. For folks 'stuck' with oil, propane, electric resistance baseboard or an old-technology it's ON/OFF heat pump, making the switch is an easy sale.