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New boiler on the way!

ChrisJ
ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
Well after months of learning and researching and bugging people on here I finally ordered a boiler.



Decided go to with a Weil-Mclain EG-45.  I was going to go with an EG-40 until I remeasured my radiators 15 times and realized the 40 won't cut it.  I chose the EG series over the Burnham Independence series due to the much lower NWL.



I'm curious whether the EG-45 has two steam tappings or not.  Nothing is mentioned about a second one in the installation instructions, however the parts list shows two tappings one on the right section and one on the left section.





Sure would be nice to have two 3 inch risers into a 4 inch dropped header :)
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    edited August 2011
    The manual

    Doesn't show a second supply connection, however the parts list Weil-Mclain has for it does show one.  This is why I asked for clarification.



    See here :

    http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/products/boilers/gas-boilers/eg/eg_parts_list.pdf



    Kind of hoping someone out there has installed one of these before and knows whether it doesn't have a second port or if its simply plugged. 
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Chris

    Have a look at the post titled "to repipe or not to repipe" The post says its a 45, and it appears to have 2 boiler risers
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    edited August 2011
    Nice!

    I'm going to assume if it has 3 inch ports I should run 3 inch risers out regardless of how overkill it is.  The only scary part is if I go with a 4 inch header thats going to be pricey.



    By the way, how did you find that?  I've looked all over the board for a picture like that and came up empty handed.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    LionA29
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited August 2011
    I clicked on

    search the wall, typed in eg-45, and selected all time.  Here is another 45 piped right by ezzy travis.  He states in the thread he used two and a half inch all the way through.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    What about size?

    I was under the assumption you wanted the largest risers possible to slow the steam velocity as much as possible.



    If the EG-45 has two 3" supplys, wouldn't it make sense to use them at full size? 



    I'm curious what the pros usually do on this size boiler.  The pic you posted has 2.5" risers to a 2.5" header and it looks really good,  but I'm not quite understanding why its done.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,317
    2.5"

    The manufacture calls for a single 2.5" riser and a 2.5" header. If I were doing the job I would use A single 3" riser and a 3" header.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    3" single

    A 3" single riser to a 3" header would be really simple, but wouldn't using two 2.5's to a 3" header give me lower velocity out of the boiler as well as balance the load on both sides of the block better?



    Like I said I don't quite understand the "art" behind this yet so please don't think I am doubting your answer, or anyone else's for that matter.  I have A LOT of respect for people on this forum.  I am simply trying to understand it better and know what I am doing.  Without Dan's books, this forum and its great people I would be up a creek so to speak.



    I cannot find anything in TLAOSH about sizing headers or any kind of formula that I can find.  I have heard you should size the header 1 size bigger than the risers.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,317
    page 45

    page 45 in Lost Art has a formula for determining speed of steam.
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Good, Better, Best.

      Is what it all boils down to.  You don't have to have the best unless that is what you want.  Manufacturers specs are all you really need.  These other modifications such as the dropheader, or upsized dropheader are tweaks to give you increased performance.  In my case Better was good enough for me.  I used both the 3" tappings coming out of my boiler, went up exactly 24" above the top of the boiler, then dropped into the header.  I did consider upsizing the header to 4", but decided not to for a number of reasons.  The main reason was that I used an existing boiler that had been abused in the past.



    Good luck with your decision. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Thanks

    After talking to quite a few people and doing a lot of thinking.  I'm probably going with two 2" risers more than 24" above boiler into a 3" drop header.  This seems to be the most cost effective way of getting a pretty good header.



    As always I appreciate the help from everyone.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    edited November 2011
    99% finished

    Its finally up and running.  It only took a few months working a few hours after work here and there and waiting for parts to come.



    I still need to remove the old oil line, run a pipe down to the floor from the pressure release, extend the t-stat wire so I can route it nicer and insulate the pipes but other than that its done.  Oh and of course I have to clean the basement now after I made a huge mess.



    After this experience all I can say is anyone who thinks guys charge too much to install a boiler like this hasen't done it them selves.  There is NOTHING easy about this work from hauling the blocks around to planning how your going to pipe it.  The work it self its hard and it requires a lot of thought.  Steamhead, Gerry Gill, Ron Jr and everyone else who does this for a living, you have my respect.



    While it was kind of fun building a boiler from several boxes a parts, at the same time it kinda stunk. :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,412
    Now THAT

    is some nice piping, and it should work very well! If you ever want to switch careers........
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited November 2011
    Looks really good Chris

    You and your family are going to be very comfortable this winter. 

    Don't put away the tools yet:) 

      

    Will that section of 1/2" gas line going into the boiler (if it is 1/2") allow 150 btuh of gas?

      



     
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    1/2" line

    steamhead, thanks for the compliment. I think I'll stay an electronic technician for now thanks :)





    Crash, its a 3/4" line to the tee / sediment trap. From there its 1/2" and for such a short span its plenty for 150K. I originally was going to run the whole thing 1/2" but it looked like it was borderline too small.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    edited November 2011
    passed final inspection.

    Its pretty much over now I guess. I am still finishing up insulating the pipes but the main project is finally over. I guess is suceeded.  I will say I'm glad that undersized rotted V8 is long gone.  Same with the undersized plugged chimney.  Our house no longer stinks like Diesel which it did when we bought it mainly from the chimney issue.



    NONE of this would have been possible without both Dan's books and the great people on this forum.  



    Some pictures of the project starting with when we moved in.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • 4Barrel
    4Barrel Member Posts: 125
    Nicely Done!

    Congrats on some beautiful work. I installed my own two seasons ago, and while I am still ironing out a few kinks, the system is performing well, and I am saving lots of dough on fuel. LIke you, the help I received here was (and still is) priceless.

    PS - Mine looks good, but not as fancy as yours ;-)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Quiet!

    After tuning vents and changing a few things here and there we don't even know when the system is on.



    Sometimes I'll hear the radiator vents whistling quietly as the system sucks in air just after the boiler shuts off, other than that I usually have no idea what its doing.  Every day or two I go down and check the water level and I'm not sure if its possible but I swear it has not moved in two weeks and I've been steaming several times a day every day.

    I have not skimmed again since the last time as my water in the sightglass does not have anything floating on it and is still fairly steady +- 1/4" when steaming.  There is a hint of rust in it and some rusty film above the water line but I'm assuming this is normal?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Need some help

    This week is the first relativily cool week we've had and the system is finally getting a work out.



    I still do not appear to be losing water,  its been two weeks since I last skimmed and the water line is still where I left it.



    My concern is I have a rust film in the sight glass which i beleive is normal but when I went down to check the boiler before I was surprisingly up to 0.5PSI and my water in the sight glass was pretty low.  I would say 1 to 1.5" lower than normal.  It wasn't bouncing up and down much, maybe the usual 1/4" but it seemed really low.



    Once the boiler shut off from the thermostat being satisified it came right back up almost instantly.  Is this normal? 
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,004
    Sounds like it needs another water cleaning evolution.

    Nice looking job!
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Skimming

    Hi Gerry,



    I spent 3 hours last night before bed skimming.  I removed around 20 gallons of water over this period.



    The water still looked brown tinted in the bucket even at the end of this.  In total I have skimmed 3 separate times since the install all of which have been done pretty slow and I have skimmed a total of 40-50 gallons of water.

    Does this sound excessive, or not near enough?  I'd swear I still have oil in the boiler.  The main reason I hate skimming is the fact I'm adding fresh water to the system, carrying the buckets out of the basement doesn't bother me near as much as the fresh water.  I would have kept going last night except it was 1:30AM and I needed both sleep and heat.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,764
    edited December 2011
    Complete skimming important

    The complete skimming of your boiler and removal of all of the oil residue is vital for proper boiler operation.  It will not go away over time, you must skim alot to get the boiler cleaned out.



    In this case, fresh water is not a concern as long as you are not adding it fast enough to cause thermal shock and as long as the fresh water is replacing boiler water that is being dumped, and as long as the boiler is being brought up to a boiler so that the dissolved oxygen in the water is driven off.  You don't want oxygenated water to be left in the boiler for long periods of time because it will excellerate the rate that the iron containing metals rust.



    Fresh water in excessive amounts is a problem when it is replacing steam or condensate that has been lost.  This is because that the minerals in the boiler do not leave with the steam, and if you keep adding water to replace lost steam or condensate, the mineral chloride content from the water remains and continues to build up, causing mineral lime scaling in the boiler and hi chlorides which can cause the boiler sections to rot out.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Ah!

    So adding water for cleaning \ blowdown \ skimming isn't such a big deal then.

    Any time I add any water I always let it steam for a good 20 minutes or more.  This is one of the reasons I decided to do manual feed only, this way I can add water when I know I'm going to need the system to produce heat.  



    After skimming, should I drain the entire boiler and rinse per Weil-Mclains instructions?  I have not been doing that as it seems most guys don't.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,764
    Manufacturer's instructions not bad

    Never hurts to follow the instructions....    But, the main thing is getting the boiler clean.  If you have done that by skimming, there is probably little more to be gained by draining unless the are concerned about removing residue and sludge that might have accumulated at the bottom as a result of disturbing the system.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,004
    no, that doesn't sound excessive..

    but when i hit the third time of having to clean a boiler, i use tsp, or steam master to clean it with..just had a burnham that i had to go back for a fourth visit to skim..this time i put boiler cleaner in it..let it run for the weekend..cleaned and drained and flushed the boiler and wet returns..running great now..
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,542
    Seems to be running well

    after the third skim.  Here is a video of the waterline from Sunday night (12/11/11) several days after the last skim.

    Not sure if this link is going to work but I figured its worth a try.  Unfortunately Facebook is the only way I could figure out to try and share this.



    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150510866966253&set=vb.637721252&type=2&theater
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    LionA29
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