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Dropped header question

ChrisJ
ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
I need someone just to double check me on my measurments.



I'm installing a Burnham IN5 and am going with a dropped 3" header running two 2" risers out of the boiler.  The boiler is approx 40" off of the floor and I have around 65" of clearence from the floor.

I'm looking at a 2" dia 12" nipple into a union then a 10" nipple into a 90 deg elbow out of the boiler.  This should give me around 63 inches off of the floor to the top of my horizontal pipe if my math is correct.



I am assuming with 2" pipe you loose around 3/4" an inch once its threaded into the fitting on each side for a total of 1.5 per lenth?

For 3 inch it appears to be around 1 1/4" inch per fitting is lost?

Also what thread sealer is usually used on headers, PTFE tape? Pipe dope?

Are steel fittings usually ok or is cast iron recommended?
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

Comments

  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    you should be fine with what your suggesting,

    and we use blue monster teflon ribbon tape with either megaloc or tru-blu dope on it...there is absoluetly no functional difference between mallable iron fittings and cast iron fittings..cast is traditional..cast is also easier to remove (breaking) if need be..cast also shows less pipe wrench marks..hope that helps.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    Thanks

    For your response.

    By the way, I love your minitube system.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited August 2011
    Chris

    From the top of the boiler, you have to go up at least 24".  Search the wall for some of steamheads "new installs"

    Go up as far as you can, then over as much as you have to, then drop into the header, and equalizer back to the boiler. 

    Here are a couple links for ya that will come in handy for your new project.



    http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/107/Steam-Heating/118/Steam-boiler-near-boiler-piping

    http://www.heatinghelp.com/search/results/drop-header/1
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    I'm trying

    Due to the low cieling in my basement and the fact the IN5 is on the tall side I am already going to be removing the cement blocks that are there now so the boiler can sit right on the concrete.

    with a 12" and a 10" this should give me around 32 inches above the NWL.  Its only 21 inches above the top of the boiler but that should still work fine, no?  I'm also going with two risers which are said to be "optional"

    I wish I could fit king valves in there,  I might still try but its not looking good.

    How low can the header be on a dropped header?



    I have been going back and forth between the IN5 and a Weil-Mclain EG-40 simply because the EG-40 has a lower water line.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Rod
    Rod Posts: 2,067
    Dropheader Height

    Hi Chris- You can lower the dropheader quite a bit as it is the height of the boiler risers (IN5- minimum 24 inches above NWL)  If you look at the drawing of the boiler piping on page 17 in the Burnham's I&O manual, you will notice that although the minimum riser measurement is the same in both drawings, the header (drop header) in the alternate drawing is much lower. This should give you the clearance to get in your king valves.

    One of the big advantages of the dropheader (with top entry)  is that you can take the boiler risers as high as you want and still have the header low to help get good leads to the steam mains.

    - Rod
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    How about these for king valves

    Matco-Norca 514T08.

    http://www.pexsupply.com/Matco-Norca-514T08-2-Threaded-Gate-Valve-24000-p



    It says they are rated for steam.  I just don't want to go through all of this work to have a valve start leaking at the stem down the road.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    I don't know

     if you had considered this yet, or if you are planning to go this far, but rotating the boiler can sometimes make an impossible situation a bit better.  This old diagram I drew was for someone else, but you could apply the thought to yours.
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    Chris,

     I got sold on the King Valves by watching the "near boiler piping" video narrated by Dan.  It seemed like the right thing to do.  I do not regret it.  Yea its an extra $150 for parts and more dicking around but I think they are worth it.  You are putting in a new boiler, and some day, you or someone else will be glad you did.  There is nothing like it, when you close em up and build the pressure up to 3 lbs and then open the drain valve, and shoot all the crap through the hose to the driveway.   When you get your steam working good in your new house all the crap that has been sitting in those old pipes, is gonna be washed right back to your new boiler.  It just makes sense to have an easy way to get rid of the crap.  Once you get things running right the steam is going to clean your entire system.  I don't know how old your system is but lets say 70 years.  70 years of crud is going to be washed back down your returns and will end up in your boiler.  Hell, on mine I blew out a good handful of steel pipe thread bits and a few chunks of pipe.  Those bits might have been sitting in my mains for 100 years.   I don't know about the valves you have selected.  I am not a pro.  I just know what I got, and how it works.  My Kings are Watts FSV-3C they are 1 year old and show no signs of wear.  I have a pretty big system here two 75 foot mains, 13 or 14 rads, 4 floors, 5000 square feet.  The first time I used the kings was for cleaning the system.  The second time was to figure out which rads were on which main.  The 3rd time was to repair leaks on main 1 while main 2 was still running.  4th time was to set up and test pressuretrol and vaporstat.  Late last season I was just beginning to use the kings as a throttle, to send more steam to the north side of the house. My vote is to have them. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,966
    edited August 2011
    Throttling

    Wow I never thought of using the kings to throttle. That could come in handy being one of my mains only has 3 rads while the other has 7.



    When you blow down under pressure how much water do you blow out? a gallon, 5 gallons, the whole boiler? I have to assume steaming boiler blown empty would be very very bad....



    I have to assume when I have this all inspected the inspector won't fail me because of the kings?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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