block leaking?

ChrisJ

I tore apart the boiler today and found something that made me feel sick to my stomach.



I am not sure if this is a leak or simply from the boiler never being cleaned.  I did my best to clean it as it was completely plugged in the rust area and its 90% clean but doesn't look pretty.  As far as I can tell I am not losing any water since I replaced the blowdown valve.



Should I plan on installing a new boiler next spring?  :(

nicholas bonham-carter

tearing apart the boiler

when you tore it apart, could you see whether the leak was coming from between the sections, or was it from a central part of the section--hard to see what the pictures are showing.--nbc

ChrisJ

It looks like

from between the sections.  The top and bottom of the block is clean.  All outside edges are clean.



The pictures are taken from the rear of the boiler facing forward.  The section which was plugged is closest to the nozzle.  This is a Burnham V83 from 2003.  Block was replaced in 2006 according the records I got with the house.

BobC

Fill er up

Chris,



Try over filling the boiler so the water completely fills the block and a little bit of the steam outlet pipe and then wait. Within a day you will know if you have a leak in the casting. If one of the sections is leaking your probably looking at a new boiler because getting those sections apart (steel push nipples) will take a lot of work and there is no guarantee that you won't damage another section or that another section won't start leaking in a few months.



For a boiler to fail in 8 years it suggests bad water or a terrible installation.



Bob

ChrisJ

leaks

Bobc,



Thanks for your reply. I found three leaks over the past 3 months of living here. A steam pipe was leaking, the wet return was leaking and the blowdown valve was leaking.



For how long I don't know. I have a paper here showing the block was replaced in 2006 so this block is only 5 years old. I suppose when you have 3 leaks its not surprising though.



A gas boiler is looking VERY tempting right now. Gas co will run a line for free if I give them my heat. Its just going to mean borrowing money I really shouldn't.

Steamhead

You won't know for sure

until you flood the boiler as BobC recommends. Then you'll either know it's leaking, or not.



Whether you burn oil or gas has no bearing on the leak issue.



The plugged passages in the boiler are the result of improper burner setup and poor maintenance. If the oil tech was only there for 30-45 minutes or so when he did the annual service, now you know why, and you see the result. That boiler was probably burning much more oil than it should have, and the oil company was banking the results.



Is that a Burnham V-8 series boiler?

ChrisJ

V83

Steamhead, yes its a Burnham V8.This was where I also found a completely wrong nozzle installed. Burnham calls for a .60 60deg hollow nozzle, it had a .75 45 B installed.I installed the correct one and was amazed at how much quieter it starts and runs.



It sounds like there is a chance the block isn't leaking? Does the garbage from the burner actually cause corrosion and rust like this?

BobC

There is a chance but not much

You will have to flood that boiler to find out. If it is leaking the most important thing to determine is WHY? Find out if other boilers in your area have suffered short lives and make sure the boiler IS NOT hooked up to a water softener (well water), it should be plumbed before a water softener.



Post some pictures of the piping to and from the boiler so we can see if it was installed correctly. bad installation along with incorrect installation can shorten a boilers life considerably. It seems your boiler was not maintained very well after having that block replaced and now we have to see if it was installed properly.



If the boiler has to be replaced make sure you find a good installer, it won't be cheap but it will be a lot cheaper than having to replace it in a few years.



I am on a good quality water source (MWRA just south of Boston) and the install was good but not great. My v75 is going on 16 years and has been very reliable - so far.



good luck,



Bob

ChrisJ

Piping

Bobc,

Here is a picture of the boiler in its present condition.  I have replaced a lot of the wet return my self as I found a leaking joint and did not trust the looks of some of it.



I also found the #67 blowdown valve was leaking pretty bad and evaporating as well as one of the steam pipes to a radiator had an 1/8" hole in it.  I'm sure these three leaks were enough to eat a block or two out. 



I currently have the boiler flooded however, it is still maintaing temp for my domestic hot water.  I'm hoping to simply see the water level drop rather than have to actually see the block wet.  I am 99% sure I do not have any external leaks at this point.

I am currently waiting on a qoute for a new block.  I feel it may be a better idea at this time rather then installing a new boiler.  I will be doing the labor my self.



I realize the mains still need to be insulated and the 4 1/2" nipple I have in the LWCO is not to code.  But its all I had on hand at the time and its better than what was there (nothing).

Steamhead

If the block is bad

I believe Burnham will apply the credit towards a new MegaSteam boiler, which is absolutely the BEST residential steamer on the market today. 

BobC

Not a bad install

The near boiler piping looks ok but if water was added to the boiler and it was not brought up to boiling right after doing so that could, over time, shorten its life. Do what you can to find out about the chloride content of your water - chlorides eat cast iron.



I'd weigh the cost difference between a new block and a replacement boiler carefully. You just don't know if a replacement block is going to be any more long lived than the one you pull out of there. If your doing the labor yourself the cost might be less than you think if Burnham will credit you the cost of the block to a Megasteam (as Steamhead mentioned).



A couple of questions. Do the mains run down hill (parallel flow) from the boiler? Is the mains venting ok? Finally does the water level in the boiler bounce up and down a lot when it's producing steam?



Bob

ChrisJ

mains

Steam mains run downhill and then have a return for each.  I recently installed new Gorton #1's as the main vents were both clogged and way too small.  I have two #1's on a 29' main and a single #1 on an 11' main.

The water level bounces a little in the glass when making steam, maybe around 1/4".



In regards to Megasteam,  I am not the original owner and the installer is out of business.  As far as I know Burnham will not talk with me as I am a homeowner?  Who do I talk to about this?  I would love to install a Megasteam.  I have heard rumors to the effect that even running a power burner its hard to beat the Megasteam in efficiency.

ChrisJ

Shes leaking

I brought the water right to the top of the sightglass today. I lined it up right with the top so it was easier to watch.  7 hours later it had dropped nearly 1/2 an inch.



With this news we have decided to finally have nat gas run in.  Question now is I have approx 305-310sqft of radiation.  House is 1700sqft and mostly uninsulted at this point.  Obviously this should change in the future.

It looks like my best choices are a Burnham IN5 or a Weil Mclain EG-40.  The EG-40 looks like it is slightly more efficient as well as closer to the size I need. I am looking at both in EI versions without hot water coil.

Opinions?

Steamhead

Sure its the boiler

and not another bad pipe joint? Open the boiler again and see if you see water.



If you don't, then let the water drop to the lowest level of the Hartford Loop, where it ties into the equalizer. If it stops dropping at that point, the leak is in the pipe. If not, it's the boiler.

ChrisJ

Will check this weekend

We are planning on going away for the weekend so I will shut the boiler down so everything cools.



Steamhead,  if the hole is just above the water line wouldn't this cause it to lose far less water when the water level is lower?  At the NWL I loose almost no noticable amount of water.  When i raise it up above the NWL it loses it fast.