A Modern Day One Pipe?

SteamCoffee

Looking at a complete, down-to-the-studs remodel of my 1915 condo in San Francisco. I have about 1800 square ft. and the Prior owner had cobbled-together Forced Air Gas installed. My wife and I both like Steam Heat and was wondering if you guys could opine on what a "modern day" One Pipe System would look like? My design help looked at me like I was crazy to consider such an idea. The good news is that top notch weatherproofing will be in order and SF never gets below freezing, it is between 48F and 60F 95% of the year. So it seems that a nice steady heat source would be ideal. So fire away! Am I crazy? Thanks! Scott. BTW i have great sources for all the rads et.

nicholas bonham-carter

frisco 1-piper

it's hard to know which post to reply to!!

your idea is good, but maybe 2-pipe vapor with orifices would be even better for the mild winters you have. you will have to look at the radiators you intend to use, and see if the outlet side can be opened.

a tekmar controller with an outdoor sensor would be a good method of control.

and we would love to see pictures as it progresses!!!!--nbc

moneypitfeeder

Not crazy at all!

I just wouldn't want 1 pipe, with 2 pipe you don't have the vents, and noise from them to deal with. One of the regulars here has a new system he put in http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/webapp/GetPage?pid=547

There are also several good reads in the library here I believe on people installing a "dead man's system". I would just make sure to find someone local that is actually up to the task, its one thing to maintain an old system that was installed by "hopefully" a pro of that era, vs. doing all the calculations to run the correct dimensions and slopes of pipes to ensure all your steam gets to where it needs to be, and all the makeup water comes back to the boiler. Good luck on your remodel, and your "new" heating system!

Greg Maxwell

Modern One Pipe

Sounds like what you may be looking for is the comfort of steam radiators. While I believe that a steam system existing in a house can be an excellent delivery system for comfort, I do not necessarily think that if you are doing a down to the studs renovation that steam would be your best bet. Have you considered a modern highly efficient hot water system? You could still use your old fashioned radiators that would give you the look and feel of steam, but you would have a much more efficient system that would use modulating water temperature, that in your case may be a better choice.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Great Opportunity

Two pipe steam with supply orifices would be best with a modulating boiler and full reset of supply pressure to give modulating output to the system. The efficiency of this system would likely meet that of a modulating hot water system as above.  However, with your moderate climate, I would expect the payback of any, more complex system to be very long.  Sticking with a simple system probably makes the most sense, with steam able to provide both the comfort advantage of radiant heat (if using radiators) and quick response to get the chill off in shoulder seasons.

ChrisJ

What about a minitube system?

Like the one Gerry Gill installed?  Though it would be two pipe.



That was some beautiful work.  I loved watching his videos on youtube.

Steamhead

I've done that

and it worked great, but if I were doing it now I'd lean toward a mini-tube system like Gerry's. Go here for more on his system:



http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/131555/New-steam-mini-tube-system-installed-in-my-own-house-Iron-Fireman-style

SteamCoffee

WOW! Thats what I call SERVICE!

The "down to the studs" part of the equation MAY be out of the question! My Arch. just said that if I open the walls, I open myself up to the Crazie$ at the Building Department and new CA. Title 24 Energy "Green" Codes. (Indoor Air Quality? Duct Seal Testing?) Good news is it refers mostly to NON-steam systems! Part of the original Steam pipe remains in the walls.(as does massive amounts of Gas Pipe for the Original Gas lighting system.) The unit is on the 2nd floor and has plenty of access to run pipe, install a boiler etc. As for the specifics, 2 pipe is ideal, especially for modulating each room. I though simplicity favored the 1 Pipe, I know the Payback period is longer, but nothing beats the Steam system to fight off the chill of Fog and constant Sea Breeze. The $$ here for mandatory "upgraded and Green" FA Gas System should go a long way in offsetting the Steam System, The remodel would have to replace the cobbled FA Heat anyway, no A/C necessary here! So getting the right system makes sense. I have some studying to do! Keep the brainstorming coming! Many thanks! BTW Sorry for the multiple posts

Rod

Steam Books

If you don't have them already, there are some really great books on steam heating available in the "Shop" section at the top of this page. Take a look at: "We got Steam Heat!",  "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" ,  and "Greening Steam".  if you're not all that familiar with steam heating I'd read "We Got Steam Heat !" first as it explains all the terminology,parts and functions of residential steam heating systems. All these books are easy, humorous reading and are packed full of diagrams and pictures. After a few nights of reading these books will put your knowledge of steam heating light years ahead.

     Also you might want to spend some time at what is known as "looking off the Wall" in the "Resources", "Systems" and "Videos" sections at top of this page as there is a lot of good information on steam heating available there.

- Rod

SteamCoffee

Getting the books!

Lots of older stuff. Also need to think about boiler size and radiator placement. One thing I haven't seen addressed is how best to handle boiler demand. In the winter, the high is about 48 or so and rarely into the upper 30's at night. During the Spring, Summer and Fall, it only necessary to get heat in the late eve and morning. Is it better, in a moderate climate, to let the boiler get cold then start heating it up when the t stat demands it? I would like to keep the boiler cycles as efficient as possible, it seems easier to do so when the temp swings are not drastic. BTW Summers are foggy and cold, the best time of the year is Mid Sep thru Oct...our "Summer"...Thanks all for the help