riello not firing

Del

Had a riello burner on a buderus G115 boiler that had a bad drawer assembly, the parts that held the screw for the turbulator were warped so the nozzle was firing into the turbulator.....burning real smoky. Replaced the nozzle and cleaned it and got it going temporarily.  So, we ordered the assembly and I drove out again to install it.  It appeared to be a different part when I opened it.....it came with a really long airtube fuel line and long electrode contacts.  No problem I thought, I just used the old electrode contacts and didn't use the airtube.  Now, I went through and really cleaned the boiler flues like usual, cleaned the smoke pipe as well, very sooty. Put new OEM nozzle on as well. Replaced the spin on filter and bled the air out, about a pint of oil, no bubbles.  Tried to fire it a few times, heard the electrodes buzzing and solenoid open, but no flame.  Bled it more, still nothing. Opened up the boiler and dried up all the unburned oil. Double checked electrode setting.  Tried to fire it again, still nothing.  Turned the oil off and took off the air tube cover to see if I could view the electrodes sparking and bam it fired up for a second then stopped due to no oil. Put things back, still nothing.  Is it possible that I have the wrong turbulator on the drawer assembly?  It looked the same as the old one.....but the old one was a bit deformed so it was hard to tell. When it fired with the air tube cover plate off I was pretty surprised.....only thing I could think of was not getting enough air, but the air shutter was open. Any suggestions are appreciated.....I have had good luck with the few riello burners I've serviced up to now so I'm a bit stumped as to how there could be no flame at all when there is oil and spark present!  Thanks!

meplumber

F5

Sounds like you got a drawer assembly for an F5 and are putting it into an F3.



You aren't making good contact between the ignitor and the electrode rods if that is the case. 

Del

thx!

thanks for the reply....our service manager is not too bright.  Drove 45 mins to this job, opened the box and saw the wrong part.  thought i could make it work by just using the old electrode contacts with the new nozzle holder/turbulator.  You're saying that the nozzle holder is a different length for the F5 so even if I used the old electrode porcelains it still wont make good contact?   

meplumber

That's correct.

The distance between the porcelain clamping bolt and the ignitor contact is longer than on the F3.  Hence the longer electrode bars.  I am surprised that the turbulator fit correctly.  There isn't a lot of room for error on electrode lengths with Riello burners as there is with Beckett or Carlin.



Good Luck

Del

got the right one

Ok, got the right drawer assembly in there, electrodes to spec.  Still would not fire.  Disconnected oil line and took oil pressure reading, that was spec too.  While I had the oil line off dumping into a bucket, I opened up the boiler door to see what kind of spark I was getting.....looked real strong but it looked like the spark was getting blown away from the tip of the nozzle.  I thought I might have a DOA nozzle, and I remembered when I first got there, there was a 80 degree nozzle instead of the spec'd 70 degree hollow nozzle.  I threw in an 80 and bingo it fired right up.  Now, I'm wondering if I had a bad nozzle or if that extra 10 degrees made the difference. 

   Something else is up with this burner/boiler because the air shutter is all the way open(like that when I got there), but I'm still getttting between a 4-5 smoke spot. I thoroughly cleaned the heat ex. and smoke pipe.  Spec'd nozzle is a .50 GPH, but it had a .60 in there so I stuck with that.  Any ideas? I was thinking maybe there was too much air, and it was blowing the spark away from the nozzle and not allowing ignition.  Can too much excess air cause high smoke? Thanks



-Mike

Mac_R

Riello

Riellos are really touchy when it comes to air.  You give them to much and they go haywire.  You should only be running around 25% excess air.  I have seen some run around 10%.  I have a Riello bible.  What G115 are you using.  then I can tell you your nozzle size, turbulator, insertion depth, air band settings, everything you need to know.  But to me it sounds like you have the air band open too much.  If you continue to have problems then you might want to think about switching the Riello out for the Beckett NX.  That is the burner I use with the G115 and I have had no problems what so ever.  You can do a direct vent with the NX as well.  The NX is a little more quiet. 

meplumber

Relationship between excess air and co2/smoke.

Del, think back to combustion basics.  As we increase CO2, we decrease excess air.  As we decrease excess air, we inadvertently increase smoke.  Unlike Mac, I normally see excess air numbers closer to 30%, read using a Wohler.  I prefer the F3 on a G115 over any other burner.  I have had great luck with them.  You are correct in your assumption that the 80 deg nozzle was way too much.  Is this a G115/4 or 5?



Good Luck.

Del

g-115/4 is the boiler

Thanks for the replies. So, if the air band is all the way open and I'm still getting a smoky fire, something else must be up, right? Specs on the burner for the boiler were a .50 gph 70 degree hollow, but when I got there there was a .60 80 degree hollow in there, and I had problems getting fire from a 70 degree nozzle(unless it was a DOA nozzle) I put in the 80 degree and it fired right up.  I'd appreciate any settings/ measurements. Thanks



 

meplumber

Take a look at this.

Del,

Here is a burner setup chart for the G115 series.  A G115/21 is the same as a 115/3, 115/28 is a 115/4, etc...  The BF series are direct vent.

http://www.buderus.us/files/201001221723430.G115_BurnerSpecifications-022005.pdf

This should give you a starting point.  As I thought, the 4 is usually a .65/60 B.



Good Luck.

Mac_R

Riello

1. If you give an oil burner too much air it will smoke and soot.  30% excess air on a Riello is to much.  If the air band is wide open then the burner is getting too much air.  Remember any time you change a nozzle, adjust the air band, even sneeze in the direction of the burner you need to do a run time efficiency test.  Start with draft and once you got that adjusted then go for a 0- trace smoke.  then you can adjust for CO2.  With a G115 your testing hole needs to be 4-6" away from the breech and 6-8" away from the draft regulator.  a lot of the time people do not test in the right place and it messes everything up.  Oh and you CAN NOT test in an elbow. 

earl burnermann

check the air tube cover

The times I've had smoke calls on riello burners where the air was open all the way almost always are from the air tube cover not being completely closed. I find that whoever re-installed it had trouble getting it completely tight. Sometimes the nozzle line has been bent and has to be pushed back into place. You may find that the one or two screws that connect this part to the housing appear to be in all the way but if you look at where the cover connects to the housing you may find it "V"s open as you look towards the blast tube side of the cabinet.