Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit

The EPA and elecric hot water heaters

j1965 Member Posts: 1
Is there any truth to the rumor that the EPA is going to outlaw 40 gal and over electric water heaters starting in 2014.  Requiring home owners to purchase a heat pump with an electric element back up?


  • Mac_R
    Mac_R Member Posts: 117
    Hot water heaters

    I do not know if that is true.  I did here roomers that because of the new energy laws coming out in 2012 that electric water heaters will not be able to be sold.  The only ones that meet the new requirements are the heat pump water heaters.  This is only something someone mentioned to me.  I do not know if it is true.  I am only posting it because if someone does know the truth will they please set us strait.  Thank you.
  • meplumber
    meplumber Member Posts: 678
    Heard the same rumor.

    I do know that there is an EPA Energy Efficiency package that takes effect in 2012.  I do not know the full scale of what is in it.  I know for a fact, that incandescent light bulbs are to be phased out in the package.  There are some SEER provisions in it as it pertains to HVAC equipment.  So, I would not be surprised if electric water heaters were in there as well.

    If someone knows where to find this info, let us know.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    I think it becomes law in 2015

    The above link is from last year.

    I know their proposed standards have the insulated glass industries worried about being able to comply without having a mandatory triple pane window...

    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • meplumber
    meplumber Member Posts: 678
    I mis-typed in my previous post.

    Mark is correct.  It is Dept of Energy driven.  Not EPA.

    Thanks Mark.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    DOE and Electric water heaters:

    Another really bad idea with the laws of unintended consequences in full display.

    Electric water heaters are the cheapest DHW tanks on the market. On FLA, in W Palm Beach where they are building these high rise condo units, 200 units on 20 floors, I want to see the rooks where they have 200 heat pump water hearer compressors.

    We have a condo unit in an over 55 development built in 1980, all on one floor. There are 240 units in the place. It was a Levitt development. All units had heat pump water heaters along with the AC. Every unit had their heat pump water heater system fail and every unit now has a 40 gallon short electric water heater with 3300 watt elements because the services aren't up to handling 4500 watt elements.

    I'd rather see the extra money spent on a slightly more amount for electricity to an electric storage tank than more foreign companies buying more HVAC equipment made in China. At least most of the tanks are still made in the USA. I'm tired of installing products that enrich our foreign national corporations, based in the Cayman Islands, not paying taxes in the USA and getting tax refunds from US because they claim to be US corporations.

    At least 1.6 gallon per flush toilets work and save money. There's nothing in this bad idea that will save the consumer any money. Especially in a retrofit that can't be retrofitted.
  • EricAune
    EricAune Member Posts: 432
    Sure hope not...

    Northern climates are not as conducive to the installation of heat pump water heaters. I have a few out there, a couple are fine and a couple are questionable.  We pay a lot for our heat, and for many months so there are few places where this type of heater makes sense at all.  Hard for me to justify saving money on one front only to spend it on another (heat). 
    "If you don't like change, your going to like irrelevance even less"
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,283
    For what...'s worth, Australia is banning electric water heaters as we type.  But then they use mostly coal and are very worried about rising sea level.  They are quite serious about cutting energy use.  No doubt, their experience will continue to be educational for us. (They were ahead of us in banning incandescent lights.)

    Yours,  Larry
  • Mac_R
    Mac_R Member Posts: 117
    Re think

    Electric water heaters are not the most efficient way to heat water.  A solar system with indirect backup is.  As a nation we need to rethink the way we use energy.  We will spend thousands of dollars on a HD 3D TV.  We will not invest in a DHW solar system.  Beckett has a superb system out for DHW solar.  The savings on your energy bill will buy you that 3D TV.  When I put in a new boiler I ask my customers, how would you like a new car?  Because most of the time the monthly savings on their oil bill will pay the payments on a new car.
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
    how would you like a new car?

    You are being logical, which may not be the path to success. For example, I have a 20 year old friend who smokes cigarettes. I suggested: Forget GEICO, you can get free car insurance. That did get her attention. In disbelief, she asked how, and I said quit smoking: the money you save will pay your entire car insurance bill with some left over. At a pack a day, that is about $2,500 a year, and my car insurance is less than half that. She thinks I was just being stupid. Mathematically challenged, I suppose.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,085
    edited June 2011
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Mac_R
    Mac_R Member Posts: 117
    Re think

    I know what you are saying.  I agree with that.  It is just a tool I use to get their attention.  Also it does work.  The key is I am not asking them to give anything up.  Smokers love their cigs.  I know.  I tell my customers you don't know comfort till you know Buderus.
This discussion has been closed.