10" plug removal

Jimbo_5

Doing a job that requires the removal of a 10" plug at the drip-end of a steam main header.  The piping is older than I am (60 yrs for me),  Any ideas of how best to remove this plug, so we can weld new pipeing onto it?

Paul Fredricks_3

.

My advise is to start drilling. Put a couple of holes in it so you can get a sawzall in there. The cut, carefully, to the edges in a number of spots and knock the pieces out. Once you get things cut a bit you might be able to smash it with a sledge.



my .02

Steamhead

Unless you're Superman

you probably won't be able to turn that thing, even after heating it and hitting it with Kroil. I'd drill thru it and cut it with the Sawzall, being careful not to damage the threads in the tee.



Edit- great minds think alike!

Paul Fredricks_3

Brilliant minds....

....you know Frank?

Charlie from wmass

If you happen to have a RIgid

S-A-8 wrench it may move it but aside from that do as suggested above.

nicholas bonham-carter

superwrench

that rigid wrench looks a bit light:--nbc

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Compound-Leverage-Wrench/EN/index.htm

i think an older design looks better:

Jimbo_5

Here is pic of the beast:

It is high in the ceiling and above electric, plumbing, ducts . . .

Charlie from wmass

the S-8-A is

68 pounds. but It was said more tongue in cheek Nicholas. Not many jobs can absorb a grand for a wrench. What size do you have in the photo?

Jimbo_5

No hope of surrendering peacefully?

I didn't think it would, either.  But the shop/owners believed it would back out with a 4' wrench.  Then again they thought the new steam piping should be run level. rather than pitched, all 60-some-odd feet of it..  It's a challenge trying to tell owners what can/should be done . . . then WE have to do the work in a timely fashion because to them it looks "easy," just back it out and install a new nipple and elbow.  ;-(

MikeyB

Plug Removal

Jimbo, if you have to try to unscrew it first, and if the line is active w/steam try applying a candle or two to the threads before trying to unscrew it, if you don't have candles use a wax ring. let it set in for a while,  the heat from the steam will start to wick the candle wax into the thread, its worth a shot, if that doesn't work you will have to cut it out as others mentioned, good luck, let us know how you make out

nicholas bonham-carter

the magic of ebay

it's 8 in, and the postage was more than the cost of the wrench on ebay!

i figure it may be handy when it comes time to take the nipples out of the bottom of the peerless to clean out any mud!--nbc

Charlie from wmass

Sorry Nicholas

it can not help taking nipples out of boilers. It can do a rather nice job of taking a fitting off a pipe. If you get tired of tripping over that wrench drop me a line. I would be happy to remove that terrible thing for you.

nicholas bonham-carter

monster wrench

it will probably take the cap off the 8 in. long nipple, but i agree, that it needs a proper length of pipe or fitting to get a grip.

i haven't looked lately, but i would bet there is at least one on ebay now; however the shipping could be a bear!--nbc

Jimbo_5

My boss now agrees, unscrewing is not the way

Last night we indeed tried heat (2 forms), lump hammer, liquid wrench

and a 4' wrench.  To satisfy him, I anchored an eye to the floor at a

good angle and attached a come-along, tightened it super tight and

heated the plug area with an oxy/acetylene torch--not a budge.  Then we

tried to burn a hole in the 80-something year old plug--again, no go. 

We suspect there may be some condensate water lying at the bottom of the

plug that is stealing our heat. Monday we will drill a few holes and

sawzall the damn thing.







We are wondering just how thick the plug itself is?

nicholas bonham-carter

tripping over a super-eight

this listing is an example, and it did not sell!--nbc

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rigid-Compound-Leverage-Pipe-Wrench-Super-Eight-/230619868865?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b203eec1

jonny88

id go with steamhead

we did have the same situation a few weeks ago but we were working on a live gas line and could not get a building shut down.our only choice was to get a 3" wrench with a persuader and go for gusto.hit the wrench with a lump hammer a few times to try and shock it.with a persuader it should come out even if it is painted.we would have drilled and cut it but in the circumstance had no choice.let us know how you did tomorrow.sorry i missed the 10" part ours was a 4" plug.steamhead on this one for sure.

Jimbo_5

Here I go again

Well we have tried numerous ways to get this plug out, all to no avail.  Tonight we tried drilling, starting with a 1/4" brand new bit dipped in cutting oil.  This barely put a nick in the plug.  We figured to go 1/4 to 3/8 to 1/2 and then sided-by-side 1/2s to enable the sawzall blade.  After that we again attempted the oxy/acetylene torch--like trying to crack a jeweler's safe.  This being very old piping, we are wondering just how thick this plug might be.  When trying to torch through it, the plug was spitting of sparks unlike cutting pipe.  They looked like what comes off a 4th of July sparkler.  Any ideas?

MikeyB

Removal

Jimbo, I know this sounds like a long shot, but how about cutting off the square part of the plug first, then drill out the center, the plug might not be solid all the way through, it might be cored out behind the square nut. Im thinking that the plug is not a high pressure (Solid) plug since the Steam pipe is Screw Pipe, so it might be worth a try. It will take alot of heavy duty zawsall blades. Acccording to Wards cut sheets on their fitting the thread length on a 10" plug is just under 2", see attatched

Jean-David Beyer

Off the wall suggestion.

Since I am not a professional, these may be completely unrealistic. In decreasing order of likely success:



Can you get carbide tipped drills? They might cut better and last longer than high speed drills. They cost a lot more, and are not available in big box stores. Ohhh! They are very expensive:



http://www.supertoolinc.com/products2.asp?nav=5&s=list&sc=Drills&m=1&l=5374



If it is possible to sacrifice the T, you might just cut the whole thing out. And if it won't cut, grind it out with a suitable stone in a grinder. I am not talking about a Dremel tool grinder but something like a bench grinder, if there is such a thing as a portable version of one of those. This on the chance that it might be easier to replace the T than to get the plug out.

Jimbo_5

Thanks for the suggestion

Oddly enough, when the boss bid this job he didn't realize the fittings were all cast iron, including the plug.  He thought they would all unscrew easily, if you can believe that with a 10" 80-year old steam main.  They normally do AC work, not heat.  Prior to hiring us, he ordered all the material he figured was needed, including concentric reducers for the 10" and 8" pipe.  We told him he needed eccentric, but they shrugged off the need.  Now this CI plug is driving us crazy. 

Steve_210

can you

use a small grinder, or are sparks a proublem?

Jimbo_5

Yes, a grinder is fine

We were figuring to use a cutting wheel to cut out the center nut as deep as possible, and then slice top to bottom and left to right . . . then try to beat in the pieces to collapse them.  

Luv'nsteam

Try iodine for rusted parts

I have no idea how or why it works, but I have witnessed it many times and learned about using iodine from an old plumber.  Give it over night if you can and get the iodine from wallmart - costs much less for large container.



If you are going to cut the plug out get a wheel made for stainless steel.  They are also salty on price, but last longer and cut better then most cutting discs I have used. 



Another trick I learned from pop is to first tighten a fastener even just a fraction.  For whatever reason, fasteners often will let you tighten them but not let you loosen them.  Tighten first to break the bond and then loosen



If you try heat again, get it cherry red and then let it cool.  This will expand the threads and also break the bond.  When it cools, it will contract and hopefully allow you to remove the plug.  Some people subscribe to the idea of removal when hot, but this has never worked for me personally.  However, if you try it, only heat the fitting to cherry red and then try to remove the plug.



Good luck.  Oh, be sure and eat your Wheaties before you try this.  : )



Best regards,

Mike

Jimbo_5

Thanks, Mike

At this point we are more or less stuck with cutting the plug free.  Tonight will tell.  Last night we demo'd the 6 & 8" piping.  We shall see what develops.  Most trades folk on site cannot believe the tee and plug are cast iron.  Whoever installed these pipes really deserve credit for aligning all theses tees, elbows and 45s using 8 and 10" screw pipe.  It's a lost art.

Jimbo_5

Finall, almost done

Well, just to let you know, the plug is finally on its way out.  After several hours of grinding and hammering with a lump hammer, it is finally coming apart.  Everything but the threaded area which seems fused together for now.