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10" plug removal

Jimbo_5
Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
Doing a job that requires the removal of a 10" plug at the drip-end of a steam main header.  The piping is older than I am (60 yrs for me),  Any ideas of how best to remove this plug, so we can weld new pipeing onto it?

Comments

  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
    .

    My advise is to start drilling. Put a couple of holes in it so you can get a sawzall in there. The cut, carefully, to the edges in a number of spots and knock the pieces out. Once you get things cut a bit you might be able to smash it with a sledge.



    my .02
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,796
    edited May 2011
    Unless you're Superman

    you probably won't be able to turn that thing, even after heating it and hitting it with Kroil. I'd drill thru it and cut it with the Sawzall, being careful not to damage the threads in the tee.



    Edit- great minds think alike!
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
    Brilliant minds....

    ....you know Frank?



    :)
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,318
    If you happen to have a RIgid

    S-A-8 wrench it may move it but aside from that do as suggested above.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    superwrench

    that rigid wrench looks a bit light:--nbc

    http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Compound-Leverage-Wrench/EN/index.htm

    i think an older design looks better:
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Here is pic of the beast:

    It is high in the ceiling and above electric, plumbing, ducts . . .
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,318
    the S-8-A is

    68 pounds. but It was said more tongue in cheek Nicholas. Not many jobs can absorb a grand for a wrench. What size do you have in the photo?
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    No hope of surrendering peacefully?

    I didn't think it would, either.  But the shop/owners believed it would back out with a 4' wrench.  Then again they thought the new steam piping should be run level. rather than pitched, all 60-some-odd feet of it..  It's a challenge trying to tell owners what can/should be done . . . then WE have to do the work in a timely fashion because to them it looks "easy," just back it out and install a new nipple and elbow.  ;-(
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    edited May 2011
    Plug Removal

    Jimbo, if you have to try to unscrew it first, and if the line is active w/steam try applying a candle or two to the threads before trying to unscrew it, if you don't have candles use a wax ring. let it set in for a while,  the heat from the steam will start to wick the candle wax into the thread, its worth a shot, if that doesn't work you will have to cut it out as others mentioned, good luck, let us know how you make out
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    the magic of ebay

    it's 8 in, and the postage was more than the cost of the wrench on ebay!

    i figure it may be handy when it comes time to take the nipples out of the bottom of the peerless to clean out any mud!--nbc
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,318
    Sorry Nicholas

    it can not help taking nipples out of boilers. It can do a rather nice job of taking a fitting off a pipe. If you get tired of tripping over that wrench drop me a line. I would be happy to remove that terrible thing for you.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    monster wrench

    it will probably take the cap off the 8 in. long nipple, but i agree, that it needs a proper length of pipe or fitting to get a grip.

    i haven't looked lately, but i would bet there is at least one on ebay now; however the shipping could be a bear!--nbc
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    My boss now agrees, unscrewing is not the way

    Last night we indeed tried heat (2 forms), lump hammer, liquid wrench

    and a 4' wrench.  To satisfy him, I anchored an eye to the floor at a

    good angle and attached a come-along, tightened it super tight and

    heated the plug area with an oxy/acetylene torch--not a budge.  Then we

    tried to burn a hole in the 80-something year old plug--again, no go. 

    We suspect there may be some condensate water lying at the bottom of the

    plug that is stealing our heat. Monday we will drill a few holes and

    sawzall the damn thing.







    We are wondering just how thick the plug itself is?
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    tripping over a super-eight

    this listing is an example, and it did not sell!--nbc

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Rigid-Compound-Leverage-Pipe-Wrench-Super-Eight-/230619868865?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b203eec1
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
    edited May 2011
    id go with steamhead

    we did have the same situation a few weeks ago but we were working on a live gas line and could not get a building shut down.our only choice was to get a 3" wrench with a persuader and go for gusto.hit the wrench with a lump hammer a few times to try and shock it.with a persuader it should come out even if it is painted.we would have drilled and cut it but in the circumstance had no choice.let us know how you did tomorrow.sorry i missed the 10" part ours was a 4" plug.steamhead on this one for sure.
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Here I go again

    Well we have tried numerous ways to get this plug out, all to no avail.  Tonight we tried drilling, starting with a 1/4" brand new bit dipped in cutting oil.  This barely put a nick in the plug.  We figured to go 1/4 to 3/8 to 1/2 and then sided-by-side 1/2s to enable the sawzall blade.  After that we again attempted the oxy/acetylene torch--like trying to crack a jeweler's safe.  This being very old piping, we are wondering just how thick this plug might be.  When trying to torch through it, the plug was spitting of sparks unlike cutting pipe.  They looked like what comes off a 4th of July sparkler.  Any ideas?
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    edited May 2011
    Removal

    Jimbo, I know this sounds like a long shot, but how about cutting off the square part of the plug first, then drill out the center, the plug might not be solid all the way through, it might be cored out behind the square nut. Im thinking that the plug is not a high pressure (Solid) plug since the Steam pipe is Screw Pipe, so it might be worth a try. It will take alot of heavy duty zawsall blades. Acccording to Wards cut sheets on their fitting the thread length on a 10" plug is just under 2", see attatched
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
    Off the wall suggestion.

    Since I am not a professional, these may be completely unrealistic. In decreasing order of likely success:



    Can you get carbide tipped drills? They might cut better and last longer than high speed drills. They cost a lot more, and are not available in big box stores. Ohhh! They are very expensive:



    http://www.supertoolinc.com/products2.asp?nav=5&s=list&sc=Drills&m=1&l=5374



    If it is possible to sacrifice the T, you might just cut the whole thing out. And if it won't cut, grind it out with a suitable stone in a grinder. I am not talking about a Dremel tool grinder but something like a bench grinder, if there is such a thing as a portable version of one of those. This on the chance that it might be easier to replace the T than to get the plug out.
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Thanks for the suggestion

    Oddly enough, when the boss bid this job he didn't realize the fittings were all cast iron, including the plug.  He thought they would all unscrew easily, if you can believe that with a 10" 80-year old steam main.  They normally do AC work, not heat.  Prior to hiring us, he ordered all the material he figured was needed, including concentric reducers for the 10" and 8" pipe.  We told him he needed eccentric, but they shrugged off the need.  Now this CI plug is driving us crazy. 
  • Steve_210
    Steve_210 Member Posts: 646
    can you

    use a small grinder, or are sparks a proublem?
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Yes, a grinder is fine

    We were figuring to use a cutting wheel to cut out the center nut as deep as possible, and then slice top to bottom and left to right . . . then try to beat in the pieces to collapse them.  
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 278
    edited May 2011
    Try iodine for rusted parts

    I have no idea how or why it works, but I have witnessed it many times and learned about using iodine from an old plumber.  Give it over night if you can and get the iodine from wallmart - costs much less for large container.



    If you are going to cut the plug out get a wheel made for stainless steel.  They are also salty on price, but last longer and cut better then most cutting discs I have used. 



    Another trick I learned from pop is to first tighten a fastener even just a fraction.  For whatever reason, fasteners often will let you tighten them but not let you loosen them.  Tighten first to break the bond and then loosen



    If you try heat again, get it cherry red and then let it cool.  This will expand the threads and also break the bond.  When it cools, it will contract and hopefully allow you to remove the plug.  Some people subscribe to the idea of removal when hot, but this has never worked for me personally.  However, if you try it, only heat the fitting to cherry red and then try to remove the plug.



    Good luck.  Oh, be sure and eat your Wheaties before you try this.  : )



    Best regards,

    Mike
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Thanks, Mike

    At this point we are more or less stuck with cutting the plug free.  Tonight will tell.  Last night we demo'd the 6 & 8" piping.  We shall see what develops.  Most trades folk on site cannot believe the tee and plug are cast iron.  Whoever installed these pipes really deserve credit for aligning all theses tees, elbows and 45s using 8 and 10" screw pipe.  It's a lost art.
  • Jimbo_5
    Jimbo_5 Member Posts: 218
    Finall, almost done

    Well, just to let you know, the plug is finally on its way out.  After several hours of grinding and hammering with a lump hammer, it is finally coming apart.  Everything but the threaded area which seems fused together for now.
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