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Oil or Propane

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James Day_2
James Day_2 Member Posts: 191
in THE MAIN WALL
I have a brother that is building a new 2000sqft house in Orange County NY.  The whole house has a heat loss of 45000btu's.  Has is going to have all radiant heat and Indirect Hot water tank.   What would be more practical,  a oil boiler: viessmann vitola or buderus g125be.  Or a Condensing LP boiler: Viessmann Vitodens 200 , Buderus GB142.  Will the low water temps and modulation make up for the price and btu ouput/gallon between oil and LP.     Thanks

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  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,788
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    Difference

    I would figure it depends on the pricing in your area , pricing has been unstable to predict the long term . Oil is around 140,000 btus and propane 91,500 per gallon ... I would figure around 15 percent difference if both run on an outdoor reset ... Just a guess , there are many engineers on this sight that could tune my estimate .

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  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    edited March 2011
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    LP Route

    Go LP with the Vitodens 200. Great question for Weds and I'm sure after seeing the nuts and bolts of the 200 you will understand why.





    Wanted to expand my earlier post. Jim 45K sounds high for 2,000 sqft heated radiantly. That's 22btu's a sqft. What is the application? Joist with or without plates? Above the floor. Based on previous jobs I would say the loss is 30K to 36K at the most. How many water temps do you require? Do you have low temp slab?



    Best application here may be the use of a condensing boiler with a buffer tank to park btu's to curb any potential short cycling in the earlier fall/ winter and as we head into spring. The Vitodens 200 with a Vitotrol providing indoor feedback would tune in the comfort level without getting into interfacing controls by others. I would even consider using the Vitodens 100  with the Como-OT which will provide the same function as the Vitotrol if only one water temp is needed. Keeping it a simple system while still providing comfort and efficiencies in the 93% to 95% range.

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  • chapchap70
    chapchap70 Member Posts: 139
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    Depends on the price

    To the best of my knowledge, LP has been more expensive every year per BTU on Long Island.  compare 91 to 92K BTU's per gallon propane to 139 to 140K per gallon heating oil.



    LP is not a viable option here since a 5 percent higher fuel usage for a radiant system would not be enough to offset the 20 percent higher LP price.

       
  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 930
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    LP vs oil

    if going with LP look at Triangle Tube Prestige PS60 or PS110 (no chimney needed vented with PVC pipe) If going with PS110 look at using a TT Smart 40 indirect water heater. Also a Noritz LP tankless gas water heater if going LP. I believe if you purchase your own LP storage tanks you can shop for best price. If you rent the LP storage tank only the company that owns the tank can fill it.

    If going oil look at Burnham MPO-IQ oil boiler add the outdoor reset control add their Alliance AL-35 indirect water heater for hot water. Install two 330 gallon oil tanks buy oil when it looks like it is going to be as low as it can be for the heating season or one oil tank and do a prepay with a good company so you don't loose the money if oil company goes out of business. If going oil I would build a chimney and not sidewall vent it.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
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    Higher Fuel Usage for Radiant?

    Chap, could you fill us in on why radiant would cause a 5% higher fuel usage?  To the best of my knowlege I need less energy to heat a space with radiant. A heat loss alone tells us that due to the difference in infiltration/air changes per hour for a space heated radiantly vs a space heated by forced air or fin-tube baseboard. Doesn't the use of water temps well below 180 degree water provide additional savings?

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  • chapchap70
    chapchap70 Member Posts: 139
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    Bad Wording

    Sorry; my wording was unclear.  The 5% higher usage per BTU is for oil.  Radiant utilizes the condensing function of a boiler well.  The costs per BTU are about the same for both fuels in applications such as hydro-air if the boiler is setup with post-purge.  Oil has about 3% more BTU's before condensing than natural gas.  I think LP has a little less than oil but a little more than natural gas before condensing.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    edited March 2011
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    No problem

    I still think utlizing LP will provide you better savings. Attached is a study that was done on Long Island concerning condensing with baseboard. 

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  • k_2
    k_2 Member Posts: 26
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    re

    I have seen no number at which propane works in Mass. Propane would have to be much cheaper per gallon than oil to compete, and in 10 years I have never seen it less.



    Yes the boilers are much cooler, but  propane is too expensive



    propane at 95percent is $3.15 per 100k btu at $3 per gallon

    oil at 85 percent  is $2.54 per100kbtu at $3 per gallon,



    last bill I saw propane was 30 percent more per gallon than oil, going the wrong way.



    I bought the Buderus GB125BE
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