Surging problem just won't end...

Marcus Mead_4

Good Morning!



I did some work extending a line on my boiler to add two new radiators last year, and since then, the boiler has had trouble getting enough steam out even though it is sized properly. 



After posting the question here, we figured out that there was oil in the boiler, and I have been skimming literally the entire season to get rid of it, and can't.  I've even automated the process with a large garbage can and sump pump, and have slowly skimmed for hundreds of hours, without effect.  I've blown it out.   I tried Arm and Hammer, Hercules Boiler Cleaner, and Squick, nothing has made a difference.



Here's a video of the problem I made:  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxVWOrvmmc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxVWOrvmmc</a>



If someone could advise, I would be eternally grateful.  The surging just goes on forever, and the sight glass does sheet over from the top.  Thanks!

Mark N

Squick

I've never used squick so I don't know how well it works. In your video when reading the directions for squick you say to the raise the water level to 1" below normal water level, but only put water in to the minimum water level. That is why your water feeder kicks on. Your water level is going to bounce when making steam. What I saw in your video wasn't that bad. How do the water samples you take when skimming look? Can you see any oil? Have you tried boiling the samples?

Mark N

Equalizer

I looked through some of your old posts. You have two elbows in your equalizer. I don't know if that matters or not but if you look at the Utica piping diagram the the equalizer drops straight down into the return.

gerry gill

Marcus-- no where in your video link

did you say your having a heating problem..am i correct all is heating well??



also the amount of water movement in the video was not bad..though there was no carryover evident as you noted..



Your killing this boiler with all the fresh water your bringing on..



Try this-- turn the firing rate lower on the gas intensity..in essence remove the piping pick up factor from the gas input..has worked for me on numerous occasions

Marcus Mead_4

More info

Thanks for the replies!  Here's some more info on it:



Mark-  Not sure either on the near-boiler piping, that was based on suggestions here last winter.  The water coming out is usually pretty clear, but sometimes I can detect trace amounts of oil, especially if it has been a while since it has been skimmed.  I have not tried to boil the water out of the boiler on the stove, but I did try Dan's suggestion to boil some water and add some oil to see what it looked like, but I could honesetly not see much difference.



Gerry-  Actually, the boiler is killing ME!!!  Seriously, though, sounds like the surging may not be as bad as I thought?  From what I had read, anything over an inch was considered "severe", and I had that.



But the problem has been that, in spite of the fact that the boiler should put out more than enough cubes of steam, the back of the house would not get warm, and our vents kept clogging (more in a minute on that).  The main venting should be fine (big Gorton main vent at the end of the line), I fought with the venting last winter trying to eliminate that as the source of the problem.  But even when the vents were taken out of the radiators completely, it was like the boiler was just out of steam.  Other radiators in the house would also only get so many sections warm, regardless of how long the boiler ran.



The consensus was oil from the work I did; in addition to the lack of steam, we had:



*Lots of surge

*Hoffman 1a's that routinely clogged with water; they would just stop working (cold radiator), I would have to take them off and empty water out of them.  Usually one or two a day around the house would stop.

*Sometimes, I would open that skim valve while it was running, and a whole bunch of water would come gushing out from the riser.  Never knew why that was until I read about how oil on the surface can allow escaping steam to literally pull water behind it into the header.



So it looked like an oil contamination issue, that as giving us very wet steam.  But maybe that has now been fixed, and there is something else that has been overlooked?



The skimming could sometimes bring the back of the house to life, so to speak, and it would be warm and comfortable back there, but over time (a week or so), it would get colder and colder.

sreja

Surging problem just won't end...

I'm not an expert by any means so do not take what I say as very meaningful, but I would kill to have such clean water and such little bouncing in my site glass.  It looks perfect to me.



This may be one of those cases (i've had ton) where us amateurs read dan's steam heating books and take some of the details about what is "right" too seriously.



Again, i am no expert but from my experience you dont have an oil/dirty water problem, at least none that would be the cause of any of the problems you are experiencing, not even close.

crash2009

Wasn't that you

a few months ago, with the rads that wouldn't heat well?  Something about a main under a crawl space.  What was the outcome of the propane troubleshooting?

Marcus Mead_4

Propane pressure

Yes it was!  The pressure was effectively normal, just a tiny bit low, so that was not the problem.  Again, that made us look at oil in the water.

crash2009

The reason I asked about the propane

 is that I think that is what Gerry was suggesting, to go back to the fuel source.  Maybe it needs to be a bit more lower.  His suggestion was.... 

"Try this-- turn the firing rate lower on the gas intensity..in essence remove the piping pick up factor from the gas input..has worked for me on numerous occasions "

I enjoyed watching your video, its time to quit your day job.

Marcus Mead_4

The video...

Yeah, my wife was going to scream "WHAT'S GOING ON DOWN THERE???"  when I opened that valve, and I was going to yell back, "NOTHING!!!",  followed by, "I TOLD YOU NOT TO BUY THE OLD HOUSE, GET TE CONDO WITH FORCED AIR, BUT NO, NOW YOUR MAKING SOME VIDEO FOR YOUR FRIEND ON HEATING HELP DOT COM WHILE I'M UP HERE WATCHING THE KIDS!"



Sigh....  but she's a little more camera shy than I am.

gerry gill

hmmm propane

i have no experience with a propane fired appliance..i thought you had natural gas.. before changing the firing rate on propane consult someone with propane experience..or perhaps the manufacturer.