Riallo Burner Question

PHPaul

I had a Buderus G115WS/4 hot water boiler installed by a professional. It has a Riallo 40-F5 burner on it. At the same time the furnace was installed, a 5" stainless steel chimney liner was installed.



I use a wood stove for supplemental heat, so it's not uncommon for the furnace not to come on at all during the day.



The problem is that when it DOES come on (usually in the early evening when outside temperature starts going down) it is EXTREMELY noisy. The damper slams back an forth (once violently enough to dislodge the flap from it's pivots) and there is a roaring noise audible even on the second floor (the furnace is in the basement). I can feel random pulses of exhaust coming out of the damper tee.



Once the furnace cycles a few times, it operates normally. This makes me think that the issue is related to the furnace firebox and/or chimney being cold.



The original installer came back and double checked the adjustments on the burner and said there was evidence of an air leak in the line. He tightened all the fittings. It did not improve the situation.



The next idea was that the pump on the burner was not strong enough to draw fuel through the line. The tank is in the basement on the same level as the furnace, but the line was run up from the tank and across the floor joists over to the furnace and back down so as to avoid running the line on the floor.



I had the line rerouted and sleeved so that the fuel is gravity feed, had the pump bled and all the settings double checked. No change in the symptoms.



The furnace works very well in all other respects and I am VERY pleased with the oil consumption, but this noisy, border-line violent cold start is driving my wife to distraction. We all know that if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy



A fairly comprehensive search has not found any information on this problem but does seem to indicate that Riallo burners are touchy. I'm even considering going to the expense of changing to a different brand of burner.



I'd appreciate ANY input on this issue. I'm not a pro, and I'm not planning any DIY action. The guy that put it in is not being very responsive (but to be fair, he's a one-man show and VERY busy this time of year), and all the service department at my oil dealer will do is adjust it by the book. I'm just looking for some solid information in an attempt to fix this issue.

lchmb

just a thought

Riello is an excellent burner and like anything on the market can be fussy. Then again so can any burner... I can only suggest you use the find a contractor feature above to see if anyone is in your area. If no one is in your area try your supplier to see if they offer service.. Just let them know in advance that you have a Riello and are having issues. Get a date for service and leave the system cold.

I do have a number of thoughts as to how this can be corrected but without the proper guages and equipment it would do you no good...Good luck

billtwocase

Ditto

Find a service person who knows how to fine tune a Riello. That is a tough combo boiler/burner. You might find mile long threads on this site with the same issues you are having. Remedy is usually drop the nozzle one size, and up the pump pressure

PHPaul

Riallo Burner Question

Thanks for the input guys.

Eric_32

Had one similar..

These burners can run excellent. We had similar conditions with a new install last year, Billtwocase's answer is what got her smooth as silk but you need the tools and knowhow. 

heatech

my experiece

found that not only doing (or having a service person with the proper test eqipment) what BILLTWOCASE sudgested widening the gap on the electrodes to 1/4 in. or even 9/32  and leaving the height and out settings the same has made a huge difference. It allows the spark to flow farther out into the fuel easpecialy with a 45 or 60 degre nozzle. Riellos in tripple pass boilers can be loud in general especialy the flue noise if ther isn't at least 18 in. of strait flue pipe on the termination of the boiler 

icesailor

Riello/Buderus Problem:

Guys I know swear that his boiler and burner combination is better than free puppies and ice cream. I put in one Buderus with an EZ-1 and SS-1 Powerventer. It ran so badly when it started cold, I was embarrassed. It smoked, rumbled and did about everything wrong possible, Until the thing got over 140 degrees or so. When hot, it was the nuts. Let it be off for a while and start up and it was the same thing over. There's no chamber. When cold, I could see the oil spray drop to the bottom and smoke until it got hot enough to dry off and burn. I installed a Lynn Wet Blanket refractory rug on the bottom and the problem went away. It is my understanding that Buderus does not suggest this fix. I've heard a lot of guys do this with the rug.

I have two experiences of the noise Buderus/Riello burners make. The first one I heard a few years ago when it started and ran, I was shocked at how loud it was and seemed to have a "whistle" to the sound. Last Wednesday, I was in a house that had this boiler/burner combination. It was a really nice professional install. It started up and it was just as loud as the other one I heard with the same "whistle".

For the cost of a Lynn Wet Blanket refractory rug, I would try one in the floor and see if it improves. I think yiyu could go on a long frustrating search for a solution and come to the same conclusion. Try it. It worked for me. 

icesailor

Nozzle size, Pump Pressure:

Bill,

there's a third way. Put a Lynn Wet Blanket in the bottom to reflect heat energy into the bottom of the flame instead of the cold cast iron of the floor, cooled by the incoming return water allowing the floor to become wet with unburned oil. And the combustion process flame becoming unstable from the erratic burning of the cold oil until it gets hot. That worked for me.

tom_49

ah

ah..... the B/R combo.

I have one driving me nuts. we will be installing the Lynn wet blanket soon. also, try a W nozzle in there. seems to work better.

This is why I have gone back to the silver and orange boiler w/ stainless insert.

icesailor

Orange & Silver:

The off Yellow (Gold) ones are pretty nice to. And they have a blanket in the bottom from the factory. Vent them out the back rather the top and they are quieter, and they work really well and are quiet with that EZ One.  

ToddM

Try

A 70 deg A nozzle and set the pump @ 180+/- Had the same thing and spoke with the Buderus rep and the reillo peeps. They all said the same thing.(The blanket will work too) You may have to adjust the internal baffles to slow down the draft(need to check w a digital manometer or a magnahelic draft gauge) was told a Bacarack gauge isnt sensitive enough. Good Luck 

Robert O'Brien

Icesailor

You're actually suggesting a pin boiler in lieu of a Viessmann or Buderus?

icesailor

Suggestions:

Sure, why not? They are cheaper and American made. And I use American burners on them.

I give everyone a choice. I wouldn't give them a choice of a dark metallic boiler that has a history of cracking, and the Orange/Silver, and the blue one are considerably more expensive. The customer makes the choice. They are paying the bills.

I always try to buy American unless it has an aluminum block.

I like those Gold colored things. Wet base with a rug in the bottom. Awesome

icesailor

Draft Blues:

That's probably part of my problems with that thing. If you can't set the draft with the big Bachrach draft gauge, it will be too susceptible to draft variations. Where I work, it was gusting over 60 MPH today and blowing a steady 30. What do you set the draft at? Right now, it is almost calm. In a while, it may be gusting over 60 again.

The Big Blue I saw yesterday with the 5" exhaust, venting into a rebuilt/relined chimney and there was a big note on the RC saying "Leave Draft Damper Closed" and the weight was removed. What's THAT all about?

I have installed two "RC's" more often to quiet down draft.

lchmb

blanket

I've used the blanket trick in a number of system and actually have done the same with a Viesmann that was driving me crazy (until the tech rep sent me the stainless liner's which had been forgotton).  As far as draft, If I have them any higher than -.02 at breach it creates problems.

billtwocase

lining

a bottom lining with some Lynn wetpack will help to smoothen the lousy start ups, but burner tweaking is a big part of the end result. Another problem is the the smoke pipe should always extend at least 18" straight out the back before any elbows, and draft has to be spot on. I have found that combo to be more trouble than what it is worth, and to get best results, contact Riello and not Buderus when it comes to revised settings for the burner. Most will make that mistake, and go round in circles.

rick in Alaska

riello

 I am not sure if it is because of the fuel you guys are using or what, but up here in Alaska we have a huge amount of Buderus/Riello combos and I can say that it is very rare to have a problem at all with them. Also, we have Ultra oil and Burnham MPO's set up for direct vent and also very rarely have problems with them.

I know the Riello likes to have positive pressure on them, so you need to watch the draft readings. Some of the g115 boilers are set up with the tube of the Riello inserted about 4" into the firebox. This was a hard one to accept, but it works great. Some of the earlier ones with the tube flush would burn the end of the tube off, and also cause sooting and high co levels. The new fix took care of it.

 The Riello on the Buderus is what I consider to be a very quiet burner with the cover on. Most of them have either a 90 or a tee right off the end, without any straight pipe. I have an Ultra oil in my house with the nx burner that I consider to be a very loud burner. (also on direct vent).(noise is intake air).

The best nozzle around here is the w nozzle.

I would also double check the fuel lines for air in them and maybe the electrode setting as it sounds like maybe delayed ignition. I haven't had or heard of this problem, but I am also wondering if the fuel valve is not opening up as it should?

Anyway, hope some of this helps.

Rick in Alaska

PHPaul

OUTSTANDING!

Finally, some hard facts and experience! I've been going nuts trying to find someone who has experienced this.



Thanks VERY much for all the suggestions. I'm going to print this out and give it to my service guy.

PHPaul

Delete Dupe

.

PHPaul

Quick Question

I surfed around and looked at the Lynn blanket. Only question I have is expected service life of the blanket. Is this something that should be replaced on a regular basis, say annually?

lchmb

service

They will be able to tell very quickly when they open the boiler for service. 

tom_49

$

Ice: you might want to check pricing w/ your supplier. You may be suprised what you find in regards to the V & B's. I love to buy American, but lets face it, we dont make the best of everything anymore. Too bad. I love my Fords, jeep, evinrudes, fenders, bacharach.

meplumber

You all know that I love this combination.

Billtwocase is correct.  Setup is the key.



They do work.  Got more out there than I can count.

icesailor

Blankets

Absolutely not.

They are quite thick and come in a bag. They are pliable when wet. They are designed to be used when you find a hot running burner is blowing the back out of a chamber. You cut odd the shape you need, place it over the offending ares and fire it off. It takes the shape of what you put it against.

My primary use for them is on boilers with swing out front doors where I need to clean out the kibbles and bits from the prior cleaning of others in the bottom of the chamber. The older "rugs" were quite thin and flimsy. I usually ended up sucking most of it up in the first cleaning. After the new Wet Blanket, when I go back, I just pull the whole thing out in one piece. It's a wonderful thing. You don't need to replace them, ever.