Will skimming fix classic steam heating problems-new gas boiler?

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In Sept, 2010 I purchased a new Burnham gas boiler for my steam heating system.  Since then, I've been having what everyone says is typical problems.  hot upstairs, cold downstairs, boiler doesn't know when to fire or quit firing, steam hissing from one upstairs radiator (never did that when old boiler in place) so much I have to open a window, heat doesn't always reach the last radiator in the system, low water gauge fluctuates too much and calls for more water, can hear water move through pipes when boiler is fired up. the house is 100 yrs old and has a one pipe system.  Sometimes, all the radiators are warm and working fine so I don't think there are any obstructions in the pipes.  The plumber measured all the radiators before selecting the boiler size.

The plumber doesn't seem to know what to do or isn't doing it.  The boiler rep recommended skimming the boiler and said there's too much water getting through the pipes and sitting on top of the boiler.  The plumber drained, not skimmed, 5 gallons of black water from the boiler and added Squik.  He said I should notice a difference but I don't.  He added Squik 3 days ago.  Now he's going to skim it and says that should take care of the long term problems. 

Does this make sense to anyone out there?  Will skimming take care of these problems?  how many times should it be skimmed and how often?

When and how often should Squik be added to the boiler? 

The boiler stays fired for 3 hours at a time, the house gets warm, then downstairs gets stone cold before the boiler fires again and the hissing, water level bouncing, etc.. start all over. 

Can anyone offer any help before my warranty runs out?!  Thank you.

Rod

Steam problems

Skimming is important though other things can cause the problems you are having. It would help a lot if you posted some pictures of your boiler and the piping around it so we could check out your boiler's piping configuration, Take the pictures from back away so the piping and the boiler are in the picture.We can blow the pictures up if we need to see more detail.

At what pressure is the boiler now operating? It should be less than 2 PSI.

I've attached an article on skimming which maybe of help to you.

- Rod

nicholas bonham-carter

snake oil cure

in my opinion, neither squick, nor any chemical should ever be added to a boiler, without a need for correction of some water supply fault, such as too many chlorides in the municipal water supply.

i don't know what "everyone" says are the typical problems with steam, however you can be sure that when your house was built, and the new system fired up, it did not have these problems! was the thermostat changed at the same time, and if so, is it steam settable?

were the main [not radiator] vents checked, at the time of the installation.

follow rod's suggestion and post some pictures. check your pressure for it being over 2 psi for basic functionality, [8 ounces for economy and comfort]. see if you can find the installation manual for your boiler, and compare the piping requirements with what you have as far as diameters and layout.--nbc

Charlie from wmass

I can say one thing from seeing a few systems

Yes they did have problems from the day they were built. Not every dead man was a skilled tradesmen. Much of what has survived to today was done right thats why it lasted this long. Other systems have been bad since they were built back in the day. Squick can be used to speed up getting oil out of a system. Often times I use cleaners on larger systems to save on the labor when it comes to skimming. No one wants to pay a tradesman to stand there for hours emptying buckets of oily water. That having been said I will say it as always "Can you post some photos please?"

Change

Steam heat/new boiler follow up with photos

Thank you for your replies.  Here are some photos of the piping configuration and 2 diagrams of the steam boiler piping recommended in the owner’s manual.  The plumber changed some of the pipes and eliminated some when he installed the boiler.  He said it would allow the steam to get to the radiators faster.  I also include a photo of the water gauge as it looks right now.  It was as  black as this last Sunday before the plumber drained the water.  The Squik was added on Thursday and by Thursday night it was back to black.  When he left Thursday he said it should be chalky but I should notice an improvement in the operation of the system; Friday morning he said black was ok and would be flushed out this Wednesday.  There’s no change in the operation  of the system since the Squik was added.  Should I be calling this plumber now, shutting down the system and insisting it gets skimmed now instead of waiting until Wednesday?

The Psi differential is set to 0.5; the main psi number shows “20” on the left side and is slightly above “2” on the right side.   I don’t know if the vents were checked during installation. 

I don’t know anything about plumbing, but I’ve lived in this house my entire life and never experienced this.

Steamhead

That steam piping is completely wrong

Part of it is copper, and it looks like there's a concentric reduction before the equalizer turns downward.



It needs to be re-done.

neilc

can't even see (?)

don't think i even see a header, let alone equalizer, which picture ?

doesn't the boiler take off go straight to mains ?

and returns the equalizer ???

looks like a total botch and repipe job to me,

(and this is with total due respect to you Steamhead)

Brad White

Agreed...

PLENTY of roomfor improvement. Initial riser, maybe a dropped header if height is an issue, straight to the equalizer, etc. etc.



Probably could use a skimming too, once the re-pipe is done.



Frank- show 'em how it is done!

Rod

Piping Problems

As Steamhead, who is a very experienced steam pro, mentioned, your boiler piping is NOT right and that is most likely the source of your problems. The installer should have followed the manufacturer's instructions. With steam it is very important that the near boiler piping is configured properly. Here's a link to a video that explains the importance of proper boiler piping configuration.

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/107/Steam-Heating/118/Steam-boiler-near-boiler-piping



I have also attached one of your pictures.Could you take some more pictures of the outlined area including the piping above it? If you can take the pictures from farther back. We can blow them up if we need to see more detail. Take the pictures at different angles so we can see where the piping is attached.

- Rod

Change

New gas boiler/steam heat problem photos

Here are some photos of the area you outlined as well as the overhead piping.  I appreciate your help!

I am not sure how to proceed next.  I know the plumber is going to tell me the piping is fine. If he does, where do I go- the plumbing license board? Is there an inspection board I could call?  Should I let him skim the boiler anyway?  Again, thank you!

nicholas bonham-carter

how to deal with bad installation

call the local burnham rep, and see if he can assist with showing the plummer what is wrong. ask him if the warranty would be in effect with improper piping. a call to burnham will give the location/contact info of the burnham rep.

burnham goes to great lengths to show exactly how to pipe the supply and return piping just to avoid all these sorts of problems, and your man neglected to follow the instructions even remotely.

this boiler must be completely re-piped in iron pipe, before it will ever work properly. skimming will be required at the end of the re-pipe, along with flushing out the old squick.--nbc

jimmythegreek

another note

as said before by a number of super steam guys, your piping is horrible. This guy knows nothing about installing a steam boiler.  In the post above this one, the second to last pic shows the top of the boiler.  The copper pipe going out (on top of boiler) has a black circle about a foot away from it.  This is probably a second tap for an output, and should be utilized into a proper header, equilizer, and hartford loop as all previous posters said.  If you paid this guy in full demand a proper repipe, and the call to burnham is a good idea.  Maybe they can directly contact this guy and explain to him how to install this properly.  Get all that copper out of there, and also the water feed/fill looks like its going right into the return, it should be going into the mud leg of the return line that isnt there yet, but should be.

BTW what state/area are you in?  maybe someone here is close to you

Change

Need someone in Lowell, MA area for gas boiler/steam heal fix

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me and others in similar situations.  I live in Lowell, MA.  Is anyone close enough to me to come and look at the setup of this boiler and tell me what it will cost to fix the problems?  Is anyone certified to work on boilers?

Change

Need someone in Lowell, MA area for gas boiler/steam heal fix

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me and others in similar situations.  I live in Lowell, MA.  Is anyone close enough to me to come and look at the setup of this boiler and tell me what it will cost to fix the problems?  Is anyone certified to work on boilers?

Brad White

Is anyone certified to work on boilers?

Is a crab's butt water-tight?



Bob Gagnon is in your area, not to the exclusion of others. Milne P&H in Manchester By the Sea also comes to mind. There are others I am sure and this challenge can come out beautifully from this group.

I will just sit back and watch.

Steve_175

Finding a conractor

Fill out the info at the top of this page "Find a Contractor" and you will get a number of choices. I have used Cadotte and he is very good. Call several to see if they can come out to look at your system.

Rod

Find a Contractor

As others have mentioned go to the "Find a Contractor" section at the top of this page.

Scroll down past the zip code section (It's not reliable) to the "States" section and find your state. There are several good steam pros listed in your area. Tell them you got their name from "The Wall".

- Rod

BRIANJ

RISERS

The factory specs you posted calls for two risers from the boiler. I only see one.

Brian

Boston_2

Was the installer a person or company?

I had the same problem you are having with your install not to long ago.  I converted from oil to gas and installed a new burnham IN6.  I posted pictures that looked just like yours - copper pipes, not piped correctly... We had low water issues, pipes banged, spitting radiators... you name it, we had it.  Since i live close to you, i am wondering if this is the work of the same installer.

Burnham didn't end up helping us at all since they only deal with contractor's and we fired ours.  But with the help from this site (Brad W. helped me out big time) and Dan's books, i was able to get my boiler problems fixed and it works great.  So well, that i only add water once a heating season, and i can never tell when the system is running.  

Charlie from wmass

I have been known to wear down some tires

fixing boilers. Bob Gagnon is near you though.

JuliaV

lowell ma

hey there i'm in MDX county too ... if you find someone good, let me know!! i need them too!!! the guy on here told me on the phone he would charge me just to come out and take a look (no free estimate). I know we aren't supposed to mention price on this site so I won't but I wasn't willing to pay that for him to come give me a quote.

Can someone really call Burnham directly and have a rep help deal with a plumber who installed incorrectly? Has anyone done this with success???

JuliaV

one more thing

Good luck with contacting a 'state board.' I was told that there is no 'heating inspection' requirement/legal protection in the commonwealth. Guess you can get ripped off easily here.

nicholas bonham-carter

burmham rep

call them and ask about the warranty on your boiler, mentioning that it is difficult for you to talk to your installer.  mention that the rep has already advised squick, but that a more permanent solution is needed.--nbc

Charlie from wmass

The building inspector

is in charge of mechanical inspections in MA. I do not offer free diagnostics. If I am going to lay out what needs fixed for another person to fix it I feel a fee is in my rights. I do credit my diagnostic towards the repairs if I am hired to do the repiping. Education is an investment worth paying for.

Change

Piping materials for steam boiler

I want to be sure the right material is used for the repipe.  Is there a difference between iron pipe and black steel pipe?  Is black steel the right thing to use on the steam boiler repipe?  If not, what should be used?  The original pipes were gray iron. 

Thank you again!  This is the best site I have found anywhere!  In fact, I own a small business that provides services to the elderly, and they are always asking me to refer them to plumbers, electricians, handymen... I plan to add your site to my website list of resources so people will find you.