oil to gas conversion?

jonny88

living on long island.currently pay 360 a month for oil for 12 months of the year.just bought the house.a few people said i would be crazy not to change over before i renovate.house is about 2200sqft.could anyone give me a comparison to what they pay in gas.

Brad White

How many gallons of oil do you use?

Is the $360 per month the entire annual usage divided by 12?  At $3.00 per gallon that is 1440 gallons annually.



If you are in an area of 5,000 Heating Degree Days and 2200 SF, assuming 75% efficiency and a 60 degree design delta-T, I get a heat loss for you of 125,800 BTUH. That is over 57 BTUH per SF, about twice what I would expect.



So your heat loss is unusually high or your oil usage is less than you say.



You just bought the house? Curious how you figured a full year of oil usage. Can you clarify that please?

bob eck

oil to nat gas

How old is the boiler and oil tank? What shape is the chimney in does it need to be lined with a SS or aluminum chimney liner? get a heat loss done. if going to Nat gas look at using a condensing boiler like Triangle Tube Prestige Solo & Prestige Excellence 95% AFUE gas boilers. If going with a condensing gas boiler and remodeling the home make sure you have enough radiation to run the boiler at low water temps trying to keep the return boiler water temp at 130*F or less at design temp outside to keep the boiler condensing as much as possible. This is when the condensing boiler will be the most efficient and the boiler will not need to be at high fire saving you money. If the old oil boiler has a domestic coil in it to make domestic hot water the oil boiler will be hot at 180*F all year just to make hot water for showers using a lot of oil costing big bucks. If oil tank and boiler are new but the boiler has a domestic coil you could stay with oil and have a professional heating contractor install a indirect water heater to make your domestic hot water and doing it that way the oil boiler will not have to be kept at 180*F all year long. Install new windows and doors and add insulation this can also save money. good luck with the new home.

icesailor

Oil to Gas Conversion:

Oh silly you Brad,

You do it like the gas company does it when you ask them if you should convert. You take the last/highest month month dollar amount and multiply it times 12. $4300 per year.

The gas is always cheaper because you don't heat your house in the summer with gas like you must do with oil.

And when oil is eliminated as a home consumer fuel, there will be only Natural Gas to use. And the price will go down to water rates.

And I have some nice subdividable land in South Central Florida I can sell you.

Robert O'Brien

LI

I'm on LI also, NG is about 40% cheaper than oil on Long Island at the moment. Nat Grid has some rebates available again for high eff equipment.

http://www.nyserda.org/Energy_Information/energy_prices_supplies.asp

Brad White

Yoo Hoo Sailor....

Just asking for back-up on actual heating demand. No one has illusions that gas is less costly of course, today. With oil so high, gas is something to get out of the way, a by-product, so there is a slight glut and thus lower prices.



He did say "per month for the entire year", so doubting that, I ask.



Above all I wanted to find out a true cost basis so that his savings could be more apples to apples.



But you knew that~

Big Ed_4

Gas / Oil

On Long Island it is a crap shoot which fuel is bottom line cheaper .. Use to be oil , then gas , oil now gas again ... To convert is like when to buy in the stock market ... But in reverse ... Only way to beat it is duel fuel ... Or move to the Caribbean

icesailor

Brad's Conversion:

I know that. I wus jes funnin' ya,

jonny88

oil to gas conversion?

thanks for your replies.i have been living here for two years,waiting for the sale to go through,some complications which i wont bore you with,so the oil boiler is about 40yr oldamerican standard.oil tank is the same age in basement.right now every window has drafts etc so the heat loss is ridicolous plus i have a mum in law and granny downstairs,so obviously they like there heat.we are renovating the whole house and converting a garage which will get radiant.a lot of people have said i would be crazy not to do it,i just wanted to get advice from the heating pros,(im a plumber in the city,i value my boss's opinion but when it comes to heat we are plumbers first and our heating knowledge as i have discovered from dans books and this site has a lot to be desired)but dont tell that to a nyc licensed plumber.again thanks for your opinion.also can anyone suggest a good heatloss programme.a guy in the supply house we deal with told me forget the computer nonsense and go with w times h times sqft of room will give you the btus you need for that room,any truth to this or is this the lazy way out.again thanks for the advice

Brad White

Me

too!

Brad White

Heat Loss Calculations

Oh where to start...

The Slant Fin program is free last I saw and is available through this site (although I cannot seem to find the link). There are other heat loss programs. But if you are diligent,  break out the areas of each surface, glass, walls, roof, basement walls, doors, etc. in square feet. A simple pad of paper will do.



Area x u-factor x temperature difference will do it for transmission.

If you give us an idea of the surfaces, what they are made of (e.g. "double pane glass or single pane with storm windows", 2x4 frame walls with (or without or unknown) insulation,  roof or attic floor with what presumed insulation, etc. we can help you with the u-factors.



Then you have infiltration. Highly subjective unless you have a blower door test. Could be 0.75 to 2.0 air changes per hour...



Write back and we will see what we (ok I) can do.

icesailor

Heat Loss Calculations:

The guy in the supply house is the reason I started doing my own calculations. He is clueless.

I've bought and tried a few of them. The best one is the one I got for free from Slant Fin. It is based on the IBR method which is what I used before and only idiots can't use it. You don't sound like an idiot. I thought I lost my last (of many ) copies of it but I found one. I wrote Slant-Fin about getting another one but they never got back to me. If you really want to know, and yo sound like you do, send to the GAMA/IBR and order their H-22 heat loss guide. It is the course and it explains how to do it and shows you how. It really is easy. I bought their books years ago and taught myself how to do it by following their directions. It is really fun. And you will learn a lot about hot water things and you will see how it fits into Plumbing. I am a Licensed Master Plumber in Massachusetts. They test the heck out of us and we have to take annual CEU's to renew our licenses. NO EXCEPTIONS.

The other programs I tried would have made no sense to me if I hadn't learned and understood from the IBR courses. If you can find it, get it. It is a place to start.

icesailor

Heat Loss Calculations:

The guy in the supply house is the reason I started doing my own calculations. He is clueless.

I've bought and tried a few of them. The best one is the one I got for free from Slant Fin. It is based on the IBR method which is what I used before and only idiots can't use it. You don't sound like an idiot. I thought I lost my last (of many ) copies of it but I found one. I wrote Slant-Fin about getting another one but they never got back to me. If you really want to know, and yo sound like you do, send to the GAMA/IBR and order their H-22 heat loss guide. It is the course and it explains how to do it and shows you how. It really is easy. I bought their books years ago and taught myself how to do it by following their directions. It is really fun. And you will learn a lot about hot water things and you will see how it fits into Plumbing. I am a Licensed Master Plumber in Massachusetts. They test the heck out of us and we have to take annual CEU's to renew our licenses. NO EXCEPTIONS.

The other programs I tried would have made no sense to me if I hadn't learned and understood from the IBR courses. If you can find it, get it. It is a place to start.

jonny88

thanks for the advice.

thanks brad and icesailor.im def. going to look into that.i remember watching this old house once and richard trethewey had a great programme but i cant find it anywhere.it is funny nyc plumbers think they have the strictest codes etc but here any **** can install your heating system.again thanks for getting bavk and sharing your knowledge it is appreciated.

Charlie from wmass

Johnny are you heating with hot water or steam?

Just asking because the steam heat rebates are not so good.

jonny88

hot water

hi charlie,im heating with hot water.we actually installed a burnham in a customers house 2 yrs ago,he is now remodelling his basement and putting in a buderus.so im going to buy the burnham of him for a good price .i know a few yrs ago keyspan were giving away free boilers with a conversion but not so today.but it will keep the cost down with a half priced boiler.charlie on a atmospheric boiler such as a burnham would you use a primary and secondary loop or just pump away directly to the seperate zones

icesailor

Boilers:

Johnny,

I would think that the guy should give you that boiler for taking it away. They are notorious for leaking and you get no warranty from the manufacturer if it cracks because you are not the original owner.

In MY opinion, which is personal and worth little, I would pipe it primary/secondary if it is multizone and just let it rip if it is anything "normal". Just my opinion. I feel that if there are any glitches in the system, the P/S piping will resolve any issues.

jonny88

i agree

it is a packaged boiler,i remember it was pretty tough getting it down the stairs into his basement.i might tell him i will pay for it if i can pick it up of the sidewalk or else i like your idea free always sounds good,but nyc nothing is free.

Brad White

But why

not re-use it, even if you have to relocate/repipe it? Just curious. It may not be a capacity issue and the boiler may even benefit from more load imposed upon it.



The efficiency upgrade is to what model, a GB-142? Or are we trading CI for CI?



Have to ask.

jonny88

gb 142

his chimney is in the centre of his basement.new location for boiler is near the back door 20'away.flue pipe would have been an issue.we are going to direct vent it out the backwall.his choice he can afford it .by the way budures makes it quiet easy for an installtaion.when we are done i will post pics if you would like.

Brad White

Makes sense

With the addition of modulation ("the boiler will be the size it needs to be when it needs to be"), the owner will not regret it.



Condensing is just a plus. Trap well early and often

Yes, post pics!



Brad