Question for NY Steamers re: low pressure gauge

FJL

I had a tech service my boiler over the winter and I asked him to install a low pressure gauge but he refused, telling me that it was against NYC code to have a low pressure gauge. I told him that I wasn't asking him to remove the 30psi gauge on there now, and that I just wanted him to add a low pressure gauge so I could find out exactly what pressure I'm working at and when the v-stat is actually cutting out. He still insisted that was against code and refused to do it.



I'm curious to know if he is correct or misinformed.

jonny88

misinformed

it is not against nyc code to install a low pressure gauge on a steam boiler in nyc.did he do the installation also.

Brad White

Agree

Not specific to NYC code, but ASME and steam boilers so listed must have that 0-30 psig gauge (twice the 15 psig relief valve lift-off pressure), which as you said was not being touched.



No reason that I can find that says you could not install a higher or lower pressure gauge, -not that the higher pressure gauge would do you any good.



If he is being pedantic about it, ask for the gauge to be installed in the piping and not directly to the boiler and see what he says.

FJL

Did The Install

Yes. The tech did the install.

Steamhead

Then

get someone else to install the low-pressure gauge.

jonny88

there is your answer

get someone else to install it.you wont get better advice,these guys know what they are talking about

Charlie from wmass

Just stirring the pot here I am sure but....

can you post a few photos of your installation please?

FJL

Pix

All I have for the moment

jonny88

can u give more pics

the reason i ask is that i am sure charlie is going to give you a lot of advice on this one so when you call the tech back you will be more informed.steam systems are not as easy as they look to install.can u take some pica of the header aswell.it is looking scary already to my knowledge.them gauges should be installed on pigtails,if i were you id look for a reputable STEAM boiler installer to fix this situation

Brad White

The dropped instrumentation header

is a water seal and performs the same function as a pigtail. Being larger piping it is also harder to clog and with end plugs, easier to drain, clean and prime.



Personally, I would have used red brass pipe, but the large sizes will go a long time without clogging compared to smaller pipe even if brass.

jonny88

every day is a school day

thanks brad for that ,never seen it done that way,makes sense now you say it

Brad White

Every day IS a school day and

may that never stop. Thank you for saying that.  I learn more here than I could ever give back.



That dropped loop trap seal is actually shown in some boiler IOM literature.



On commercial boilers with operating control or dual stage controls and high limits plus gauges, that Schedule 40 pipe makes a substantial support for all of that instrumentation.  In red brass, it also makes a statement. So does the supply house invoice for that, but you only install it once. Some contractors have polished these too as a signature statement and to show pride in their work.



What I detail on mine is a last tee with and end plug and a top branch plug. The end plug is for cleaning it out/inspecting and the top plug is for a funnel to prime it (fill it) before firing. A spare valve on a tee branch is good for hooking up a temporary test gauge if you have doubts about your primary gauge.

FJL

More Pix

Brad White

I see

a dropped header which was a good idea given the low apparent height you had to work with.



But I also see the two system take-offs to the radiators leaving between the two boiler supply risers. This will cause a collision of steam and defeat the "all steam flows in one direction" ideal toward the equalizer. 



In the third photograph, I see the outer two header connections being

from the boiler and the middle two being the out-feeds to the radiators.

Is that correct?



I may be wrong because I cannot see the origins of each pipe in any one photograph. The ideal is that the steam risers from the boiler will combine in the header, before any steam leaves to the radiators.



Only after a head-on collision will the excess condensate begin to flow back toward the equalizer, that last bit fighting to go downstream against an upstream flow of steam. At least you have a larger dropped header to allow some passage below the steam.

FJL

No Steam Collision

I understand exactly what you are saying Brad, but it isn't happening.  It is hard to see from the photos.  It is a very small room and could not get any far back photos. 



Here is the photo again, but with each of the three take-offs numbered. 









You can see the second riser from the boiler right behind #1 and then it travels toward the copper pipe and enters the header.  Picture #2 above shows where the second riser enters. 



Here are two more photos that shows how the piping travels from the second riser to the beginning of the header:



Here is the riser and the beginning of the piping into the header at the other end.







And here you see the piping continue and enter the header as show in photo #2 above.  The last photo shows the intake from the boiler riser and take-off #1.







All three take-offs after the two risers enter.  No steam collision.

Mike Kusiak_2

Confusing pictures

The pictures are confusing, but I believe the risers and feeds are in the correct order. It appears that the riser near the equalizer swings around and enters the header just after the  first riser, at the tee where the header diameter increases.



The three tees in a row near the equalizer all appear to be takeoffs, as best as I can tell from the photos, but where they go is really hard to see.

Brad White

Ok~

Glad to clear that up. No concerns here on that. Thanks!

FJL

Where They Go ...

The tight space makes for very confusing photos when you aren't familiar with the piping. 



Take-off #1 feeds the 50 foot main in the basement by going in reverse of the header, behind the first riser from the boiler if that makes any sense.  (In the very first photo that I posted earlier in this thread I am standing in the doorway of the small boiler room with the basement and the main behind me.)  The photos below will show how take-off #1 travels behind the header and connects to the main.



This photo is taken from inside the boiler room and facing the door of the boiler room that leads into the basement.  The light bulb you see is in the basement, just outside the door.  You see take-off #1 go up and toward the beat up pipe that is the beginning of the basement main. The pipe you see in the foreground going toward the right is take-off #2, which directly feeds a riser for my living room.







Here is a close up of take-off #1 connecting to the beat up pipe that is the main.







Take-off #3 feeds a riser that sends steam to a radiator in the lobby and into a second riser for my living room. I don't seem to have any photos of that.



Take-offs #2 and #3 feed risers via steam pipes that are inside the boiler room.

Brad White

Did you manage

to get out of the boiler room or did you spend the night there?

FJL

Photos

I took those photos in June 2007 during the install. All of that piping has been insulated with some kind of cement. The main and all piping in the basement has one inch fiberglass insulation.

Brad White

Thank Goodness

for pipe insulation. Besides thermal benefits, there is another and I was not going to bring it up....



So you have been stuck in there since June of 2007? Nice to have a loving family to feed you!

jonny88

thanks brad

that is what this place is all about.thanks brad for your advice ,i learned a thing or two also with your help and answers.i love your fathers quote.i have never heard anyone say it though