New pressuretrol same problems

DonnySouthpaw

Thanks for reading this.



weils mcclain hydronic steam boiler, about 20 yrs old+-

model e-5

series 3

140000 btu 

The pressure release vave blew. I replaced all the 1/4 inch piping as well as installed a new pressuretrol and sight gauge. I also replaced the pigtail and flushed the low water cutoff.

Now the pressuretrol cycles on and off about 10 times then stops cycling off, leading to excessive pressure build up. The wires have continuity and the transformer is pulling about 24+- watts. I would really appreciate any help or questions. I can also take pictures if necessary.

One of my friends is a plumber and is stumped, he's coming over to check it out, but I'm wondering if there is something I can do to save him a trip.

BobC

What pressure?

What does the pressure gauge read when the boiler stops cycling and just runs continuously? What are the pressuretrol settings? They should be set low - no more than 1-1/2 to 2 PSI.



Take a few pictures of the boiler and include some close ups of the pressuretrol.



Bob

nicholas bonham-carter

short cycling with new pressuretrol

is the short cycling taking place as the boiler is first starting to make steam, and push the air out? check your main venting, and increase it.

is the short-cycling happening when pressure is up? check the amount of radiation you have against the boiler capacity. if the boiler is too large, you may be able to down-fire a bit.

a good low pressure gauge would help diagnose this problem, [gaugestore.com 0-3 psi].--nbc

DonnySouthpaw

cut off is 1 shuts off around 2 psi

I have the cut off at about 1.0 and the gauge shuts off around 2 psi or so. The pressuretrol will shut off about 10 times then won't turn off. I will post pictures shortly.

nicholas bonham-carter

pressuretrol problems

sometimes they are bad straight from the box, as was mine. luckily i got my good low pressure gauge, and could see something was wrong.

i would try a vaporstat and see if that doesn't keep the pressure down. when they had mercury switches, the pigtail which can bend with the heat could throw the settings off, but not the new micro-switch models. is the port on the boiler plugged, so that even with a new pigtail, it isn't able to see the pressure?--nbc

DonnySouthpaw

Pictures Included

Thanks for your responses! I have the steam vents in the top floor opened up. The pressure gauge seems to be somewhat accurate because the pressuretrol (when working properly) shuts off at around 2 psi. I have the cut in set at 1 psi.

When I had the old pigtail out I didnt see any sediment in the low water cutoff.

I'm going to take everything apart again and make sure nothing is clogged up, including the top side of the sight glass. I may also try a new pressuretrol as you suggested.

Charlie from wmass

Donny I would check the other piping

The 1/2" between the sight glass and the boiler and the pipes going in and out of the LWCO.

DonnySouthpaw

Thanks Charlie

I checked the pipes and took the copper sweep that leads to the LWCO off to inspect as well and they were all clean. I'm going to replace the sight glass because it was chipped pretty good at the bottom. I'm also going to try a new pressuretrol and cross my fingers.

DonnySouthpaw

Testing AGAIN!

I've done everything I can to clean the fittings and LWCO with the exception of using an additive. I replaced the pressuretrol and put the old pressure gauge back on after the new one failed.

Currently I've sat through 9 cycles of the Ptrol. Any advice on how long I should test it here before I call it a night? Last time I stayed for 10 cycles, which were smooth, only to have the relief valve blow 30 mins later.

Also, how much abuse can a PRV take? This one has blown 4 times and I plan on replacing it Monday if not tom.

Techman

Pig Tail

I did not see a pigtail in that photo.It looks like steam is in direct contact w/ the bellows of the control.

clammy

pressuretrol piping

Donny i realize that the pressuretrol pipe has always been off your low water cut off piping but i would suggest to raise the pig tail up about 6 inhes using a 1/4 X6 nipple and a 1/4 coupling this is the easiest way to raise it's height .Or even better would be to add a 1/2  x 1/4 tee  to the steam side of your boilers sight glass lwco piping  and equal it out of course with the water side connetion also .it is also helpful to use cross tees to connect the sight glass assemble it makes it real easy to brush everything out to ensure that you do not get a build up of crap.The other opition is to add a tee to the 3/4 pipe which your safety is conneted to you may have to legnthen your wiring though. I personally do not like having my pressuretrolls that close to the boiler water line it seem that the pig tail gets water logged and slamms the bellows assemble of the pressure troll.Give it  a try and as other have suggested maybe add a pressure gauge that has a lower range then the one you have but aording to code that 0to15 psi gauge must stay .Hope this helps peace and good luck .clammy PS i also noticed thatyour cut in should be set at ,5 and the ut out wheel at 1

DonnySouthpaw

Clammy

raising the nipple is a very good idea and something I'll do once I get the supplies. As is a pressure gauge.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the steam side of the LWCO, and I wouldn't be sure how to pipe it. A picture would be great if you have one. I'm really just a novice and am learning as I go.

I did get the boiler running, and let the ptrol cycle 20 times before I was happy. I put on a used ptrol and plan on sending the new one back. Thanks for all the feedback.

clammy

steam side connection

Steam side connection means tieing it into the top nipple off the sight glass piping and extending the water side so the sight glass assemble lines back up properly.The other alturnative is to add a tee to the 3/4 nipple that the safety valve is attached to .My point is basically to raise the location of the presssuretroll so the diapharm and the pig tail see only steam and is not effected by surging of the boiler nor becomes filled with water which over time can block  the ablitlity to sense the boiler pressure  .I have always thought that locating them off of the lwco /sight glass assemble was just a cheaper way of packaging the boiler where the installer  would not have to install it nor wire it but in my mind not the most ideal location but that is just me and i have seen them there working fine for years with no issues .Usually i will move them on my installs due to the fact that i do not want to it for free when there is a issue .I try not to hammer my custermers on extras even though most of the time it has nothing to due with my part of the install but basically it is the nature of the beast and of good custermer realtions even though i usually loose money wise but money is not everything at least to me it just pays the bills.Sorry i don't have any photos my main computer is done and i have lost all my pics and i have completly stopped the whole picture posting thing i have no ego so there's no need to do it plus as sweet as i an do them nobody wants to pay for it either way .Sorry for any rants hope this helps peace and good luck clammy

Techman

Straighten me out please,

I thought the purpose of the pigtail is to be filled with water to prevent the steam from comming in contact w/ the bellows/diaphram of the vapor/pressure control.