Hartford Loop?

JohnLaPlante

Hi all,



Please see the attached picture.  The diagram on the left is how I see the Hartford Loop pictured in the boiler manual for my boiler (Weil  EGH-85-PI).  The diagram on the right is how my wet return piping is configured. 



I have to have some of this piping replaced this summer, but not all of it.  However, I'm seeing a big difference between how my piping is configured and how the boiler manual recommends.  It probably wouldn't be a major additional expense to have it all replaced, but I'm wondering what all of you think?



Thanks...appreciate all of your help and feedback!



John

crash2009

As I understand it John

  Re- the manufacturer drawing.  The steam comes out of the boiler like the red arrows.  Then it goes through the header which separates(?) the steam from the water.  The steam goes up into your house and the water is sent down the equaliser, past the Hartford, and back into the boiler to be re-heated into steam.  As the separated water goes past the Hartford it sucks the Hartford water back to the boiler also.



In the second drawing, the steam starts out the same way out of the boiler, but when it gets to where I have drawn the arrows, you have 2 forces trying to go opposite directions.  They collide head on.  The pressure of the boiler might even push the returning condensate in the wrong direction.  If this is indeed what is happening the boiler might get low on water, or the water might get trapped upstairs (wet air vents).  To confirm this, while it is running, and don't burn yourself, measure the temperature where the red and blue arrows collide.  You may see the steam is going up the wet return and pushes the returning condensate back.  Of course, after it shuts off, everything goes back to normal and the water returns to the boiler.



Anyway, this is how I understand it and I may be wrong, or did not explain it right but I thought I would at least try, since you have been waiting for an answer for 20 plus hours.

JohnLaPlante

Aha!!

This makes perfect sense! I posted earlier about a vent overflowing with water...I will bet that the pressure is pushing the water back through the wet return piping and causing it to back up in piping. When we put that vent in, it gave a pathway to push the water all the way up the wet return and out the vent...think so?



Thanks so much for the response...I think I will have all of the Hartford loop piping replaced this summer.



Cheers!

crash2009

The guys here talked me into doing this type of thing

  I do not regret it.  My plumber thought I was nuts when I told him I wanted to break up my one main and form two separate loops.  Respect for the deadmen and all that.  It runs real good like this.  It took some time to tweak it but my bills are way down this year.



I just looked back on your wet vent post.  I am not sure if this is a good thing for a mouat system.

Ron Jr._3

Had a similar situation

not too long ago . The orientation of the Hartford Loop tee was like yours is now . Inspector failed the job because of it . For the life of me I can't see how it would adversely impact steam operation , as long as it's at the proper height ( usually 2 to 4 inches below the normal water line ) . The system worked fine for a few winter months till we scheduled the repipe .  

JohnLaPlante

Thanks!

Ron...thanks...appreciate the post!

JohnLaPlante

Crash...

...thanks...not sure either... Hopefully we can get to the bottom of things this spring/ summer when we have the work done.

Charlie from wmass

Ron it leaves a long horizontal

with very little net pressure or flow to move the debris. It will clog in short order. This is also why the Hartford loop nipple should be close or a wye. In the wye configuration gravity keeps the sludge from clogging the horizontal. Water moves really slow at that elevation and with the tee that way you are asking it to make a hard left with no power.

JohnLaPlante

Charlie - Thanks!

I think this is all related to what I suspect is a clogged wet return pipe along one part of my system.  Thanks for the input!!