Trying to remove radiator spud

Hen

Hello,

I am trying to remove radiator spud.  Is it right handed or left handed thread? I believe it is left handed, correct?  In other words I need to turn it clockwise to loosen it up?

Thank you much.

Hen

nicholas bonham-carter

spud removal

have a look at the threads on the new spud, which you are going to install; and i think you can see that it follows the usual righty-tighty, lefty-loosey of all plumbing threads, except for the threaded nipples on certain radiator sections, which have different handed threads on each end. therefore turning the nipple draws the sections together.--nbc

jimmythegreek

probably a cut job

I have re valved and spudded a good amount of rads in my building and NONE have come off using a torch or a 48" wrench, they usually strip out the 2 points inside the spud wrench goes on.  I dont bother anymore.  Use a angle grinder and cut off the majority of the spud (they are brass and cut easy) then use a sawzall and notch the inside of the spud but DONT get on the threads just go real close and go easy.  Use a masons punch or an old flat head screwdriver and knock the piece out w a hammer and remove the spud.  takes me 2 min to do anymore, wont take u more than 5 min for the first time.  Same goes for valves if theyre frozen, just cut the top off, then notch the outside w the grinder and pop the section out and remove the valve.  I always change the valves too because many older valves and spuds dont line up perfectly w the new ones and have leaked on me......good luck

Hen

Folow up:trying to remove radiator spud; from Hen

Tx for the replies.

- I thought perhaps the the spud has reverse thread, so as not to loosen up, when turning the nut that attaches the spud to the valve body.

- I had a pretty good leak on the valve, where the spud meets the valve body.  I unscrewed the nut, applied pipe dope to the valve body male thread, and tried to screw the nut back on. NO GO.  Tried to allign and screw back the spud/nut to the valve body countless times, I fiddled and fiddled,but the spud nut would not grab properly the valve body thread. I thought, perhaps the thread is stripped, or maybe too much old crud, or too much pipe dope does not allow me to pull the nut close enough to grab the thread. 

- I was hoping to try and reuse the old valve/spud, as in the middle of winter I did not want to risk fiddling with the pipe and the valve body  to try and remove it. I was hoping to remove the spud intact, clean all the threads well and put it all back (after first trying out the nut on the valve body to make sure, it is not stripped). I had removed a frozen spud years before.  Then, I  used a lot of torque on the spud wrench.  I used a long pipe wrench and I put a long 2'' old iron pipe over it. The spud went "crrr.." and came out without further ado. ARE THERE ANY EXTENSIONS THAT I COULD INSTALL  BETWEEN THE SPUD AND THE VALVE BODY TO MAKE ALIGNING EASIER (assuming I wont find stripped threads)? Thank you.

Hen

trying to remove spud - update

Spud removed successfully!  Laid the baby elephant radiator on the floor.  Applied a large pipe wrench to the spud wrench and put a long pipe extension to the  pipe wrench handle.

Charlie from wmass

Remember now you need to remove the valve

spuds are matched with the valve. You most likely egged the union nut when you removed it. This would make it hard to start it back onto the valve, unless it was not a matched set of spud and valve before you got to it.

Hen

trying to remove radiator spud (follow up)

I would like to temporarily (until the spring) use a new spud and the rest of the old valve.  The valve seems to hold a tight seal when closed with steam on and other radiators in the house hot.  (The radiator has been disconected at this point) The old nut that attaches the spud to the valve body seems to fit welI and tight, after I cleaned it well and removed old pipe dope. I am trying to avoid removing the OLD valve body, for concern of disturbing the rising pipe or maybe ruining the thread on the pipe (during winter). I attached  the spud from a new valve to the old valve body and tightened with the old nut. I capped the open (radiator end) of the spud. I wanted to see what kind of seal I would get. 

     The set-up seeped slowly around the inner area of the nut.  All old threads were cleaned well with a wire brush and wiped clean prior to assembly. I know from reading on 'THE WALL' that same size radiator valve parts from different valves almost never match for a good seal. 

     IS THERE a washer, a compression ring, a ferrule, that I could temporarily place between the spud and the valve body to make a good, leak proof seal?

Thank you all.

Hen

trying to remove radiator spud (follow up)

Hen

trying to remove radiator spud (follow up)

Mike Kusiak_2

Silicone RTV

Try using some silicone RTV instant gasket on the mating parts. This is sold in auto parts or hardware stores and works great for this sort of thing. It will set up rapidly at high temperature and stop the leak until summer when you can do a more proper repair.



If you clean the parts well it might even make an almost permanent repair.

nicholas bonham-carter

spud/valve matching

it is a cruel and unusual punishment, but there is no way around it, as the spud-valve marriage is unique, and so with a new spud must come the new valve that came with it.

when you start to remove the old valve, immobilize the riser with one wrench while using a second one to turn the valve.

when you have the new valve on, and are reattaching the baby elephant, do not use pipe dope on the mating union faces. just make sure they are clean, and perhaps lubricated with a bit of liquid dish soap. rock and wiggle gently while tightening the union nut.--nbc

Hen

trying to remove radiator spud

If I apply a lot of torque to the radiator valve body trying to remove it, like I did successfully with the spud, is it possible to damage the RISER PIPE  thread? (I would be, of course, using a second wrench for counter force).

nicholas bonham-carter

damage to threads?

that's how i would do it., by immobilizing the riser. be careful not to use giant vise-grips with to much force, or you may ovalize the end.

the only time the threads could be damaged would be when cutting out a section of the valve body to release the grip on the threads. in that case, you must avoid cutting beyond the valve body into the riser threads.

perhaps someone here will make a video and post it here to show the correct procedure for:

1. removal of cast iron fittings, by shattering them.

2.removal of a nipple from the boiler, by cutting it short, and then making two radial cuts from the inside diameter towards the outside, without cutting into the boiler threads, and then punching inwards the thus released section of the nipple. [this is similar to what you may have to do with the valve!]

3.spud removal by the application of brute force.

videos like these would give the homeowner a good look at the skills and experience needed to be a real steam pro, and why the cost of labor is what it is!--nbc

Hen

Is there a possibiity of shearing the threads end of the riser pipe

If I use two pipe wrenches and apply brute force to the valve body, is there a possibility that I might shear off the valve, together with the threads-end of the riser pipe?

Hen

Almost ready to put the new valve on

Almost ready to install the new steam radiator valve.  The old valve body resisted, but soon let go.

Is it OK to use plumber's tape or is pipe dope better?  I have both handy.  The tape I have on hand is labeled 'Tape Dope' - TFE Multi-purpose Plumber's Tape:  'gas, oxygen, industrial, water'.  Thank you all for the input.

Charlie from wmass

Either is fine

I(f you want to get fancy dope it then cover dope with tape.

Hen

Almost.. but no cigar: the valve too low

I screwed on the body of new 1 1/4'' radiator valve on the riser pipe; was able to make little more than three full turns.  I screwed in the new spud.  I raised the radiator upright and got it in position to mate the union.  NO CIGAR.  The valve is sitting too low by almost 3/8"  (the radiator too high).  There is NO vertical free play in the riser pipe.  The new valve has a smaller body, hence the level mismatch.  What are my options?  Thank you for your time, knowledge and input.

arches

extension

You could put an extension on the supply pipe.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Ward-FBEX1-1-4-1-1-4-Black-Extension-Piece-662000-p

It's going to give you more than 3/8" of add'l height, however, so you'd also need to put some blocks under the radiator legs.  Maybe someone else has a classier solution!

nicholas bonham-carter

height mismatch

what a downer, after all that work!

you could try some combinations of 45 deg street l's between the radiator and spud, or you could find another valve whose height is right, or.. you couls reuse the old valve and spud--what was wrong with it again? they are usually repaireable for these purposes, as they usually only leak from the packing nut, which is fixable.--nbc

HenryT

Question

NBC, wouldn't adding 45 ells or 45 elbows increase the chance of water hammer?



Just curious.



Thanks

Hen

Dealing with valve radiator height mismatch

I am thinking of trying copper fittings to deal with the resulted height mismatch.

Question: Will propane torch be enough heat to sweat 1 1/4" fittings.  I had been sweating copper for years, but nothing larger than 3/4".



NBC:  The spud on the old valve had a dimple on the mating surface and also, what looked like a short, longitudinal, hairline crack on the non-threaded  part of spud body. So far, I had not been able to get my hands on a replacement  valve that would match the old one in its impressive corpulence.  The old valve was quite massive.

nicholas bonham-carter

Valve height

those 45 deg elbows should be able to be aligned for good drainage, or you could try a 90 deg elbow, then a close nipple with full port ball valve, plus another close nipple and union, finally a short nipple into the radiator. This setup may have more height.

If you take the old valve with to the plumbing supply house, you will have a happy hour or seeing what fits!--nbc

Charlie from wmass

Take put your new spud.

Buy 2 street 45's of the same size. Install one int radiator and the next into the first. Then install spud into second 45. turn it until it lines up. Option 2 is to use the extension and put the radiator up on blocks to take up the extra height. Option three is to open ceiling under valve. break out first fitting and replace it and the pipe with one the proper length. Fourth option is to see what is preventing vertical lift on riser and notch it to allow a bit of lift. If option 4 is used make sure you do not structurally damage the home and that you support the pipe so the weight is not on the valve.

Hen

Will first try to get two 45 street elbows

Thank you all for the advice.  I will first try to go with the 'two 45 street elbows' route.

Hen

Two 45 street elbows route worked

Just finished dealing with the radiator valve/radiator height mismatch. I went with the 'two 45 street elbows route'. Works fine. No leaks.

Thank you ALL.

Hen

JamesC in Stamford CT

two 45 degree elbow photos?

Hi Hen, what an odyssey, nice to hear it worked out. Could you please post a photo of the fix for the mis-aligned valve? I have read several times of the two-45-degree-elbow approach, but cant visualize. Thanks.

Hen

two 45 street elbows resolved valve.radiator height mismatch

Hi James,

Here are attached two photos of the two 45 street elbow approach to resolve radiator/valve height mismatch. The fittings I used are galvanized, BUT will be replaced with black iron fittings.

JamesC in Stamford CT

two 45 degree elbow photos -- yes!

Thanks Hen for the photos! They say a thousand words. Now I get it.



I will need to replace some valves and may have similar problems with the heighhts. Do the printed specs for new replacement valves typically list the height from the riser thread connection to the spud connection, or are they all standard heights? Because if they vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, it means I will need to do research that, to make sure the valve I get will work at the heights I already have.

Hen

Limited specs only

The only specs that I noticed, while searching for a valve that would fit, was the diameter of the fitting.  I checked a number of places in person. All the valves had smaller body and all would result in the valve/radiator height mismatch.  I used a new valve that was available, because I did not believe I would easily find a new, large body valve.  I suspect they are made less massive due to the pricey cost of brass.



I had many leaky valves in the house.  Most were leaking around the stem, which I easily took care of by repacking under the stem nut.  One valve was leaking from under the cover of the valve body. I got a suitable gasket for that via Internet.  The valve that turned out into 'the oddysey' was leaking from where the valve mates with the spud (the union).  The spud mating surface was warped and possibly that was one cause of my leak.  Later, I also discovered a hairlike crack in the normally exposed, non-threaded, cylinder part of the spud.  I think,  perhaps, I caused that hairline crack by applying a lot of torque, when trying to remove the spud from the radiator.



Also, I had no free play in the riser pipe, otherwise the 3/8" height difference would have been a non-issue. 

Charlie from wmass

Fittings should be black iron not

Galvanized can peel off and clog vents. But Glad you could follow my description Hen. And glad you have heat. 

Hen

Fittings should be black