Heat/Load Calculations

RobbieDo

What do you guys think about giving free Heating & Cooling load calculations. I go on a lot of quotes and other HVAC guys have been there but didn't do a load calculation. I do it and send the results to the customer free of charge. I'm questioning whether anyone else does it for free? I know it's not hard as I have the software but it still takes time. What are your thoughts? Thanks

Mark Eatherton

Perceived value...

If you give ANYTHING away, what is its perceived value? I know, giving back is a good thing in certain situations, but in order to maintain a professional air about you and your business, I wold not recommend that you give ANYTHING away.



Many people charge for their designs and estimates, and in tough times like these, they lose a lot of work to the "Free Estimates" listed in the Yellow Page ads by the tons, but are these free estimates being given by qualified people?



Instead of giving it away, I recommend that you show them the actual heat loss, so they realize how much work you put into their proposal, but don't leave it with them for free. If they ask you for it, then put a price on it and ask them if they are willing to pay for your time in putting it together.



Also, make your presentation reach out and grab them and pull them into the proposal. You can't do that with a one page proposal...



I just reviewed a WHOLE bunch of proposal for replacements of boilers in apartment complexes, and I was appalled at the lack of professionalism shown in the lack of details in the proposals for the work at hand. Many of them were one page proposals, with no manufacturers literature, equipment specifications, etc.



Show your stuff, but don't give away trade secrets :-)



Wander out of the Wall and Dan has a lot of things you can include in your proposals abut what it is that you do differently than the competition.



As Dan says, it pays to wander off The Wall. Click on Resources on the tool bar up above, then click on Hot Tech Tips. Lots of great information there.



Here is a link to some stuff that Dan has produced to make you better at your job.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/11/Hot-Tech-Tips/123/21-things-you-can-expect-from-us-as-we-begin-your-job



ME

Jean-David Beyer

As a homeowner, ...

I suggest you charge for it; if it takes you two hours to do it, charge two hours of your hourly rate. If the competition is doing "free estimates", and you feel you must deal with that, point out that the competition must also do a heat loss and they must be paid for it one way or another. You could say (if it is your policy) that the price of the heat loss can be applied towards the price of the work. Because the competition must do a heat loss, too, and if they do not do it, or do not get paid for it, they will hasten their exit from the business. And my view of a contractor who does not do a heat loss for a hot water heating system is incompetent.

RobbieDo

Heat load

I always give the customers ( potential customers ) literature on the equipment, a complete estimate of all of the work to be done, warranty info. I'm not sure if the other companies are doing the heat load calculations properly but I'm sure most of them are not just by what the customers say. It takes time to o this, but to properly give them a estimate of equipment I feel that I have to do that but I guess I don't need to supply it to the customer. Its hard to compete against people who dont do the job the right way. Thanks for your input.

Wayco Wayne_2

My county

Now requires a heat loss to pull a permit. You should have seen the scramble when it became law. A lot of contractors knew I did them and asked if I' help them out. I said sure, but I' charging by the hour to do it. most disappeared. Classes about learning to do heat losses are now everywhere. I' mostly a good thing, but I learned that th inspectors have no idea what they are looking at and mostly look at the version number of the manual J software to verify competence. ack, what a bunch of maroons. WW

CMadatMe

Charge Charge Charge

I'm on the wholesale side but spend plenty of time in consumers homes with contractors. I don't even give my losses out to contractors until he orders the material unless he is willling to pay for it. That goes for radiant jobs also. There are too many consumers and contractors out there that will use your knowledge to shop.



Estimates are free. Exacts cost money. To me a FREE ESTIMATE means that you walked into Mr & Mrs Smiths basement looked at the boiler and say, I can replace this exact size boiler for XXX amount. That's a free estimate.



Now, Mr & Mrs Smith, what I can do is provide you with a heat loss (explain why one is necessary) and new system design for XXX amount of dollars. This cost will be rebated off the cost of the installation should you choose us. The heat loss and design ensures that you have a properly sized boiler and system for your home.



Does anyone know when the word estimate became the definition of exact? Just curious.

canmar

Never give away your intellectual property

I've been on the wholesale side dealing with contractors, been the installing contractor, and been the contractors salesman.  It is an important thing to perform a heat load/loss calculation for every job but you should not be giving it away for free.  By turning this over to the homeowner for free, you have now provided the competition free help.  They no longer need to do it and you have saved THEM time and money.  I always provided a full copy of a heat loss/gain analysis of all the jobs I sold upon signing of my job proposal.  The customers are right to want a copy and it is what they should be requesting of their contractor, but not at your expense.  When was the last time you went to a Mechanic and had him run a quick diagnostic on your car, and then give you the readout out for free?  I've never managed to swing it.

Brad White

Bully! Charge!

Sorry, I was channeling my inner Teddy Roosevelt    



8{



Seriously, a block heat loss worth anything takes at least an hour of your time, maybe that much to measure if there are no drawings. Room by room loads, (to size radiation), can bring that to three hours give or take the complexity.  Radiant designs? OK there is professional courtesy, but frankly, a lot of us give away that portion of our time at this wonderful place we call HH.com and gladly.



I agree with the comments- What we do has value, design side or installation and service sides. Value has costs, time has costs. If anyone balks at that, I am happy to see them walk.



The notion of your good will being shopped out to your competition is abhorrent to me.



Reminds me of a perhaps apocryphal story told to me years ago by Joe Fullam, a superior engineer I worked for.



After WWII, the Japanese were re-building their merchant marine fleet, given the condition of their pre-1945 shipping stock which was exploring deep hydronics at that time. 



The Japanese government would contract for schematic designs on ships from U.S. shipyards. General Dynamics at Fore River in Quincy MA, were paid for the work but too often, they just got the schematic design check with a "Sorry, no ship to be built at this time, thank you".  This was fine, they had other work and were producing very good drawings with pride.



Some years later,  there was a hurricane, Carol I believe. It caused the grounding of a Japanese freighter on a shoal off Nantucket and lost a rudder or propeller. The ship was towed to the nearest drydock, that being at the Fore River Shipyard.



The chief lofting engineer paced up and down knowing that the ship looked familiar. After checking the plans sent years before, he found it to be a carbon copy of a distinctive design of theirs. Come to find out, the Japanese were taking our schematics and producing finished ships on their own in violation of the contract limitation. (So it was said.) All drawings at that level were clearly stamped "Not for Construction" with a huge disclaimer, etc.



The lofting engineer called his design team in as word got out. There was another such project on the boards at that time. He directed that the design proceed but with the center of gravity to be about thirty feet above the waterline, also stamped, "not for construction".



So sayeth Joe.

NRT_Rob

nothing is firm

until the numbers are run, and running the numbers costs money.



I do estimates without calcs, ballpark my heat load expectations for informational purposes and try to highlight any areas that I think might need greater care and note that depending on the load calcs, supplemental heat may or may not be necessary, etc.



Usually the estimates are pretty good. If the heat loads turn up a gotcha, though, it happens before too much money has been spent and there is time to change expectations if necessary.